Time Frames & Prices for Book Illustrations?

[smceccarelli]

@amberwingart I agree with @Dulcie - at that price tag you are better off working for your portfolio. If you want to get experience doing book illustration, grab a book and do illustrations for it. If you take an IP-free property (like a book written before 1940), you can even publish it as an e-book and earn money from it that way.
I am perfectly aware of the sad reality of online freelance portal - I use them myself fairly regularly for design work and other stuff. My general experience is that good quality work still comes only if you pay reasonable prices - let's say 10 USD/hour for an artist/designer based in India or Asia, and at least 30-40 USD/hour for a US-based or European-based artist. People may use the rates that people seem to bid on online portals as a way to down-bid you, but the truth is that quality work in a reasonably smooth working relationship still has "normal" costs, even on freelance portals.
If you have a copy of the Graphic Artist Guild guidelines, you can see what are considered to be "normal" prices for illustration there - and rest assured that these prices get paid by art buyers - both from my personal experience as art director as well as from my contacts in the film industry (storyboarding, etc...).

[mattramsey]

if he doesn't want full color/full page illustrations and/or you can do at least (2) per hour then I'd jump at it. Starting off at $20/hr is decent. You won't get rich doing that but you have to start somewhere.

Now that said, I doubt that is exactly the case. He probably wants full color and the kind of stuff I've seen you do--well, I would be amazed if those pieces didn't take several hours.

I really like @smceccarelli 's idea to take a old IP and illustrate it. That's really, really smart and I could see your style really bringing a 1930s (for example) story to life.

[amberwingart]

@mattramsey I agree, I love @smceccarelli 's idea - I had never thought of that! But what is an ip-free book? Is that copyright free?

It's funny you said my work would be good for a 1930's book, Matt - I'm a vintage collector and passionate history buff and the 30's is 'my' era! So that was awesome to hear :).

[amberwingart]

@smceccarelli Thank you so much for the great idea - I'm going to hop on that and find an old book to illustrate. I'm so excited about this - I didn't even think to do it! And I'll have to pick up the guide - I don't have a copy of it... Thank you as usual for the great advice. I was really feeling discouraged when I saw those prices, but I guess as with any job, people and companies will pay as little as they can get away with...

[smceccarelli]

@amberwingart IP-free books are books for which the copyright is expired and the material is then in the public domain. The copyright lenght varies from country to country - there is a wiki article about it:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries'_copyright_lengths

Here is a list I found online:

Copyright expired books

The Project Gutemberg website also has mostly IP-expired titles, but not exclusively, so one hast to look a bit deeper.
If you choose a book to illustrate and publish, I would definitely research that particular title to make sure that you are free to operate with commercial gain.
This suggestion, by the way, was advanced by one of our faculty here at SVS in one of their videos - I think it was Jake Parker in the video "You need a product, not a project".

[Chip Valecek]

I did a book about a year ago for an independent author. It was a 32 full color book which she then published on blurb. I really wanted the job so I quoted her $2000. $500 for sketches/roughs... $500 for inked... and then $1000 when colored. This way at each stage of the process i was getting paid. But she was somewhat difficult and picking cause she wanted it her way and the pages stopped flowing well. Then I added her story into it and it really was not good. I do not share it cause I am not proud of what it became. She was extremely proud of it and loves it, but lesson learned I should have charged more.

With that I am working on my own personal book that my son wrote the story. It has been about a year in the making, and hope to finish by years end.

[amberwingart]

@smceccarelli Awesome - thank you for the links! Hopefully I can find a good fantasy fiction to illustrate.

I was horrified when I went on the freelance site again today and someone actually posted a job asking for "a Photoshop and Illustrator expert" with great work ethic to work 2 hours per day and get paid $25 usd PER MONTH. You read that right - they even went on to say, "that's not per hour, it's per month." It's for a game designer and the artist would be working with a team of 7 other people who'd be renderingng the artwork in 3D. That's 40 hours of work per month (assuming the artist stuck precisely to the 2 hours per day, 5 days a week) for $25. How can these people live with themselves?? And how could ANY artist apply for that?? (10 artists applied!). It's maddening.

[amberwingart]

@Chip-Valecek Wow. Hearing from you all is really giving me a different perspective and it's making me feel a lot better. These people on the freelance sites want 30 pages of illustrations for $100-$200 and they want them done within a month. And some really good artists are actually doing it! Ugh.

[MOO]

I did ink illustrations for a ya nonfiction for about $450. The one before that was $100 for 9 illustrations. The first book I illustrated was free, then I did my own project and self-published it . I still have a LOT of copies left (fortunately I did get only 300 printed though). I am not a book seller. I still am learning. Needless to say, I'm pretty much in the hole when it comes to making money from art

[mattramsey]

@amberwingart said in Time Frames & Prices for Book Illustrations?:

@smceccarelli Awesome - thank you for the links! Hopefully I can find a good fantasy fiction to illustrate.

I was horrified when I went on the freelance site again today and someone actually posted a job asking for "a Photoshop and Illustrator expert" with great work ethic to work 2 hours per day and get paid $25 usd PER MONTH. You read that right - they even went on to say, "that's not per hour, it's per month." It's for a game designer and the artist would be working with a team of 7 other people who'd be renderingng the artwork in 3D. That's 40 hours of work per month (assuming the artist stuck precisely to the 2 hours per day, 5 days a week) for $25. How can these people live with themselves?? And how could ANY artist apply for that?? (10 artists applied!). It's maddening.

I would imagine that the people applying for that kind of job are : 1. living in a "poor" country where just over $.50 US an hour isn't bad for sitting around painting or 2. not necessarily doing it for the money but rather, the experience or prestige (hey I worked on a game!) or 3. not really understanding what they are getting into.

[smceccarelli]

@amberwingart I would say that neither the people posting the job nor the people applying for the job have any notion of what they are doing. I work with freelance portals since many years for my day job - I have never had any half-way professional person apply for less than 15 USD/hour - regardless of where they live. I agree with @mattramsey that these are probably people that are just finding the idea of working on a game cool in itself - and I mean both sides of this transaction.

[evilrobot]

I'm with everyone else way, way, way too low....My price for one spread is more than twice what they are offering for the whole book. These people just have no idea of the time it takes and the amount of work. Plus I always let self publishers know before I start the work that they will more than likely never make the money back that they put into the book if they are hiring out a designer and illustrator. Typical self published children's book makes less than $500.00 so they are better off if they think their manuscript is good enough trying to an agent.

[smceccarelli]

Things like this still make me mad, even after experiencing it myself and hearing about it over and over again. For me it is not about prices that much, because my freelance activity is so small as to be nearly non-existent (this is hopefully going to change next year). However I get a lot of "we need an animation so and so, and it would be nice if it could also include something we have seen here, and we are still working on the script, and we need a couple of awesome images at the end....and can we please have it by the end of the week?"......and even though now I am pretty used to this, I always think - "What the.......Even if you do not have any idea of how this work is done (and in a visual day and age like this one, I find this already disturbing), a cursory moment of reflection should make anybody older than 4 realize that there is probably quite some work involved.... I mean, offering 200 USD for 20 illustrations means that you seriously believe that it takes less than one hour to come up with an idea or two, make some sketches, show them to you, get one chosen and finish an illustration. I don't understand this, it is like a mental blind spot that so many people seem to have....
Sorry for the rant - to me these kind of offers are an offense to the whole creative community and I believe we should find a way to make the customers understand this.

[mattramsey]

@smceccarelli I wonder if "speed paints" on Youtube contribute to people's ignorance.

I know I spend a couple hours (at least) just brainstorming and gathering reference materials before I even start to sketch.

[Lee Holland]

My first chilrens book I illustrated was very low, but $200 is ridiculous I would not do this.

[MuttsGraphix]

@amberwingart Oof, I get this question alot.

1. Always see when the client wants the deadline by and make sure it is something you can reach because deadlines are incredibly important in the freelance industry. If you don't do digital, try doing a test piece from start to finish and time yourself to see how long it takes you to complete it. That is something that I have found crucial in my freelance career.

2. That is ridiculous. I'm sorry. That's 10 USD per page and I wouldn't take something that is a full illustration for that. No way. Plus being traditional, and this is something I have found that not alot of artists take into account is the cost of your materials and your time. Time is worth a price. So no, don't take that. It is underselling and pushing it for even a digital artist. I myself do professional work for 20-30/hr depending on the client's needs.

[amberwingart]

@MuttsGraphix That helps a lot to hear your time frame! I can't even imagine how the artists who are taking these gigs are able to get 15-30 full color illustrations done in 1 month! I typically take 20-30 hrs for a full color piece too... I'm so glad I asked here because seeing those job postings, I was feeling really discouraged. There are a ton of postings where they're asking for full book covers for $20-30! I'm thinking they have to be taken by people in poor economies, where that amount is a lot of money.

I hadn't even though of my material costs (I can't believe I didn't!). I'll definitely remember that from now on as I'm looking through the job listings.

[amberwingart]

@Lee-Holland Thank you Lee! What would be a reasonable price for a complete newbie to ask for a book cover or internal illustration?

[amberwingart]

This post is deleted!

[evilrobot]

In my day job I talk to clients constantly so I have really good phone skills. But I find most people would rather converse over email and I don't think I come off very well that way. I'm always wondering "wow, did what I just typed make me sound like a jerk?" So, that is a hard part for me.

As far as how much you should charge being new. I think that is a very personal thing. I've listened to Lee White and Will Terry talk about this stuff and there are a lot of factors to consider. Me myself I did my first job for a self publisher for $125.00 a spread and that was about 6 years ago. It was super low and I didn't make any money...but I also wasn't very good and it was great to be able to say I did finish a book. And it was good to learn how to work with a client. The sites you are looking on like Freelanced tend to be garbage sites. They are pretty much set up to screw artists. Artists are all competing against each other for table scraps. I wouldn't go that route. Do your personal work for your portfolio or your own project. Get yourself out there and advertise a bit (post cards and mailers contact some agents if you want to go that route) when you think you are ready. (Your work is amazing. I can't see you not getting any bites if you do some advertising)