How To Deal With Fear Of Success

[kylebeaudette]

@davidhohn
Yes, my picture was a joke exaggerating what some people do with their art
I understand what you're saying about signing your art, but I'm talking about the people that put huge watermarks/massive signatures and a date/ruin the image with copyright info.
I agree with what they were saying on the podcast, that it is often 'the mark of an amateur'. Someone draws a flower for 20 minutes, then writes copyright info all over it or even a huge signature and date. Instead of a nice flower, I see their ideas of grandeur and paranoia.

[RachelArmington]

I was teaching social media skills to senior-citizen artists (some of whom were quite good, having had one-person gallery showings, or bringing in a few thousand per painting, or having demonstrated internationally), but we kept getting held up on adding copyright. GIMP intimidated them. Instead, I had them neatly cut strips of Denril, sign their names on the strip, and photograph their work with the Denril strip laying on top.

[davidhohn]

@danielerossi I marked the time in the episode that the issue is raised. It's at the 17:46 minute mark. So you can check it out.

I want to acknowledge that this is not the point or even the focus of the question; the issue of including a copyright symbol in the bottom corner is only raised in passing, but it is a criticism that I've seen often in the illustration community. Usually with some variation of the opinion: "Including a credit line isn't needed, or is unprofessional"

One of the things that I like about the 3PPodcast is that it's directed to new illustrators. So clarifying an incredibly important point like this is better done sooner than later!

but what goes through my mind when I add my copyright and signature — “someone may photoshop it out” But that’s the reality of the Internet.

It sure is the reality of the internet! There's no way to completely protect your work from being infringed or stolen. But by the same token, I lock my car each night. Sure a window could be broken or it could be stolen in the morning but I still do fairly easy and reasonable things to make sure I protect my property.

making sure not to add my copyright/sig too close to the edges of an Instagram post. This is in case someone uses the Repost app to share my image where the app adds the original poster credit along the sides. Of course, it would be my name displayed but after a while (if I’m lucky to go as viral!), it can be changed.

This doesn't seem paranoid to me -- it seems smart!
I don't think that most people on the internet are looking to deny creators their credit. They just aren't thinking about it! A repost app is trying to make it easier to maintain credit but as you point out, the design of the app isn't foolproof. No reason not to make it a bit easier for future fans!

[davidhohn]

@kylebeaudette

I agree with what they were saying on the podcast, that it is often 'the mark of an amateur'. Someone draws a flower for 20 minutes, then writes copyright info all over it or even a huge signature and date. Instead of a nice flower, I see their ideas of grandeur and paranoia.

Fundamentally I agree with you (see my earlier response).
The trouble is that what you've described above isn't what was described in the podcast. Will referenced a "big copyright "c" in the bottom with their signature"

I want to be fair and not pick on Will here. It's possible that in that brief comment in this one podcast he was picturing what you describe.
But a new illustrator trying to make their way in this industry likely would not.
A new illustrator would hear "pros don't do that".
That new illustrator, looking for clarification, might head over to Will, Jake or Lee's Instagram pages. There they would find multiple posts with no credit line at all!

This is a mistake.

Maybe the guys have a good reason not to include a credit line on work posted online. I've yet to hear it, but I'm always open to a reasonable argument.

My opinion and personal experience is that posting work online with no way to link the work back to the OC is bad advice for an illustrator starting out in this industry at this time.

[mag]

@Jake-Parker @Will-Terry @Lee-White oh no, I was listening and wanted you to continue so bad! I guess every nice moment needs to end eventually... but thank you guys for making illustrator’s live somewhat less lonely.

[willicreate]

I had a work colleague who referred their mother, a working photographer, to photograph their sports team. There was contention when the mother insisted on having her signature on the digital prints. It’s a position I empathize with but also question its practice in contemporary times.

Ensuring credit remains on an artwork could be resolved by embedding metadata or adding either a visible or camouflaged QR code. Other than copyright, an artist can choose to include their business address, website URL, keywords, etc in this format. But, I acknowledge the artist wouldn't be immediately visible to the viewer.

Some illustrators have adopted creative alternatives to identify their work and circumvent art thieves. A few of my favorite comic book cover artists have incorporated their brand logo in the image (the graphic on the character's clothing, store signage, etc). Some like to insert their brand mascots or self-portraits into crowd scenes. One can also incorporate their signature in a texture, ie a cat’s fur. It would be so boss if one could hide their signature with the anamorphosis art technique.

[davidhohn]

@willicreate
My position is not that a credit line is included to stop thieves
Rather, a credit line is included to make it easier for art directors, clients and just general fans to find you.
A credit line is promotion.
A credit line is branding.
A credit line is how a new illustrator rises from obscurity.

I had a work colleague who referred their mother, a working photographer, to photograph their sports team. There was contention when the mother insisted on having her signature on the digital prints.

I am sympathetic to this position. When a client pays me for a project I willing to consider not including a credit line. It is not my first choice, but if a client had a good reason and the compensation was appropriate I would be open to discussion.

What is a mistake is to put work out there that is designed to generate new project leads without including the ability for a new client to contact you!

Some illustrators have adopted creative alternatives to identify their work and circumvent art thieves. A few of my favorite comic book cover artists have incorporated their brand logo in the image (the graphic on the character's clothing, store signage, etc). Some like to insert their brand mascots or self-portraits into crowd scenes. One can also incorporate their signature in a texture, ie a cat’s fur. It would be so boss if one could hide their signature with the anamorphosis art technique.

All of this is super fun. I am a fan. I love an easter egg or hidden message as much as the next guy, but it is a separate issue from including a credit line with the goal of encouraging client to contact you.

[Randi Gordon]

I enjoyed the podcast, but I’m a little disappointed in the amount of time given to what was in the title. I came away feeling like it wasn’t even addressed. Did I miss something?

I’m noticing that the description of the show specifically talks about fear of success after being approached by a publisher. I’d love to hear more from you three about that, as I’ve experienced it firsthand and still don’t know what made me sabotage myself.

Several years ago I sent a dummy out and landed an interview at [Big Important Publishers], who loved my story and style. All I had to do was finish the manuscript. Oh, and they wanted to ramp up the colors, which I was certainly willing to do. Somehow I convinced myself it wasn’t worth doing and my writing froze up completely, and I ended up taking a job at an art supply store because my parents were tired of supporting me and out of patience. Not sure why they thought spending a fortune on art school and then not helping me survive while I found my footing made any sense, but it is what it is.

The fact that my folks didn’t seem particularly excited when I told them I’d gotten callbacks from real, actual bigshot publishers who wanted to publish my book kind of messed with my mind at the time. I’ve had a lot of therapy since then, LOL, so hopefully I’m better prepared now.

I’d love to get ahead of the self-sabotage issue before it rears its ugly head again (I am currently preparing a dummy to send out) and am wondering how to stop destructive impulses before they start. Maybe too “big” of a topic for a forum, but I trust you guys and figured I’d ask.

[davidhohn]

@RachelArmington said in How To Deal With Fear Of Success:

Not familiar with Denril, but a quick search suggest that it's a translucent paper of some kind?
That makes perfect sense! Quick easy way to add a credit line/contact info to physical media images.

And I'm reminded of how I developed this credit line/promotion position in the first place:

Years ago I was a newbie illustrator making work and putting it out on the internet.
Online websites had replaced physical portfolios as the way to contact AD's. And you didn't put your name on every image in a physical portfolio! So I didn't put it on every image on my website.

One illustration I created was my interpretation of "The Little Dutch Boy" tale. I created the image posted it to my website and . . . promptly forgot about it.
On to new and better things!

Well, about 10 years later I get an e-mail from a company that wants to relicense the image for a promotional brochure campaign. They had a budget of $5K.
Needless to say I was more than happy to do the deal and license the image for this use!

But -- this was just a self promotional image that I had only ever posted to my website.
My old website.
A website that was no longer even up. (having been replaced multiple times over)
But the domain name was still the same!

I asked the client how they found me. The client sent me the jpeg they had on file.
It was a horribly tiny little image that had clearly been wandering the net from some time.

But some beautiful, wonderful, gracious person had blatantly plastered a white box in the lower left corner with the word "www.davidhohn.com" in Times New Roman bold black type.
Graphically hideous.
Financially beautiful.
And from then on I've included the line "davidhohn.com" on every image I post to the web.

[kylebeaudette]

@davidhohn

Well, I disagree.

I dont think it's a mistake to not include your name on every (or most) of the images you put online. I'm posting my stuff on Instagram or Twitter, and when art directors see it/like it/comment on it they can clearly see I made it by clicking my profile. I think my work is more shareable because it is a clean image of a character (or whatever) with no signature. Art feels... different when it's signed for that purpose. You feel the artist grasping to retain 'rights' or whatever. I don't know, it just really think it takes away from the feel of the piece. Not to everyone, but certainly to me. Those shares I get on those platforms are worth more to me than someone finding it on Pinterest or Google images and wondering who I am.

Will I lose out in the scenarios you describe? Yes.
Will I gain on the scenarios I'm describing? Yes.

So I wouldn't call it a 'mistake', but maybe more like a choice.

[davidhohn]

@kylebeaudette
That's cool. You do you!
The great thing about this career is that there isn't one way to do it.

My goal in this thread is to bring up points of view that aren't being discussed fully on the podcast.

Thanks for participating!

[danielerossi]

@mag I tend to enjoy listening to banter on podcasts and for some reason, I was on the edge of my seat listening to the burger discussion.

[mag]

@danielerossi Exactly! And that's why the 3 point perspective podcast is the best podcast ever! You learn something about art, dogs, slides, burgers, everything!

[geekinm]

How to deal with fear of success? Listen to the Creative Rebels Podcast episode "Believe in your f***ing Self with Jamali Maddix. As the title suggests there is a little (a lot) of swearing in this episode so don't listen to it with kids around. That said this particular episode is always what I listen to when I need a bit of a pep talk. https://www.globalplayer.com/podcasts/episodes/7DrbVKu/

[RachelArmington]

@Randi-Gordon I’m a few months behind in my podcast-listening, so I haven’t listened to this particular episode yet. But…

You’ve probably heard about imposter syndrome (which can lead people to self-sabotage) as there has been so much discussion about it the last few years.

Specific to what you’ve written though: Have you ever revisited the dummy you submitted to the publisher? Were you comfortable with how you handled everything? Was there a page turn or transition or anything else that you felt you hadn’t exactly nailed as well as you would’ve liked? Have you considered just reworking and submitting it to other publishers?

Sometimes intuition kicks in and we instinctively make the right decisions even if the logic behind it doesn’t come for years after. As far as the publisher that interviewed you, were they asking you to change what you considered to be a wordless picture book by adding text (you said you hadn’t written a manuscript for it). Or was there anything during the interview that might have turned you off a bit towards them (i.e. spinach in the art director’s teeth)?

Even just getting so much feedback from a publisher is a success.

Your success isn’t contingent on how much or how little you family supports you. It may be a struggle emotionally, but in the end it’s up to you.

[Alzamon]

Plenty of meat to chew on in this episode. Personally, I think being successful as an illustrator (by the measures most of us define "being successful") is part of what I call "interesting problems to have". Most of us are more likely to suffer from the exact opposite, the 'weekend artist' syndrome and not getting enough traction on social media...

The more time you spend on this field, the more you realize the Field of Dreams fantasy ("build it and they will come") won't happen just because. You need to make people out there be aware about you — and that takes much more work than you think.

Networking, making friends and acquaintances in the business has always been and still is key — something that in these pandemic times has been a lot harder to come through, admittedly. From that point of view I miss live trade events, festivals and the like — they are vital to sharpen your networking skills and to learn how to sell yourself.

If anything, rather than fear success I'd fear not being ready to seize the moment when (or whether) it comes.

In regards to copyright: I agree everything we upload to the Internet should feature our name and contact info somehow. Not because of paranoia of my art "being stolen" but because once you publish it into cyberspace you never know which ways will your artwork take, or how it will end on the eyes of a prospective art director or well-heeled client. This said, I don't always remember to do this but maybe I should, specially on my original art. For original character designs I care enough about, I try to copyright them for my own peace of mind and to secure IP down the line.

[RachelArmington]

@davidhohn Yes, Denril is a synthetic paper like Yupo, but with better tooth. It’s great for ink, although smudgy as it’s plastic. I always thought it would be cool to do a watercolor comparison between Yupo and Denril.

Cool story about the Little (jpeg) Dutch Boy. Good People are out there.

This whole copyright discussion makes me wonder about other ways of claiming ownership: how many of us out there tag digital images with our names before uploading them onto websites? Does tagging matter for social media?

[donnamakesart]

I wrote this question months ago and realized how vague and sad it sounds Since the letter was going to be read on the podcast, I thought a short question would be respectful of everyone’s time but if you really want to hear my praise all day, I’ll shoot you guys a novel-long one in my next email

Each of you gave really solid advice. @Lee-White nailed it when he said I was stuck on an idea of defining what “being an illustrator” actually meant and feeling overwhelmed with the jobs being thrown my way. Breaking down the process and figuring out what I enjoy most is an awesome idea I really love how you problem solve everything like a scientist — through meticulous process of elimination that’s at odds with your squirrel like energy haha. Out of the three, I have personally found your teaching style and advice the best for me

It was a confidence booster to hear the @Jake-Parker say I’ve got what it takes to be an illustrator. I was squealing on the inside haha. I’ve followed you on Youtube for years and have deep respect for you as a professional artist Early on, I really struggled because I wasn’t skilled enough. I never thought finding my “Why” or my “vision” would be equally hard Same as you, I started out as an animator too! And have since been a generalist branching out to new thing, accepting whatever jobs came my way. Because of that, I haven’t been fallen short of work, but I’ve reached a point where I want to niche down, focus in on what I want to do the most. Perhaps this would be an interesting topic for another podcast like a “Jack of All Trades or Master of One” the pros and cons of being a generalist + how to niche down haha.

@Will-Terry is definitely the heart in your 3 point perspective. Likewise, I’ve listened to your Youtube channel and always felt inspired by your interviews and personal journey I tend to be overly serious and purpose-driven in all things but especially in my art work. It’s easier to tell myself “I’m making art to show an art director” vs “I’m making art to please myself” but I’m learning that you don't always need to have practical reasons for making art. It just needs to be a meaningful experience/ project to you

If I would summarize the answer, it would be this: “you’ve got to make art for yourself while enjoying each step of the process towards a bigger goal so you can motivate yourself to do the work ”

Thank you Lee, Jake, and Will for answering my question Feeling very encouraged and motivated indeed

[Randi Gordon]

@RachelArmington said in How To Deal With Fear Of Success:

@Randi-Gordon I’m a few months behind in my podcast-listening, so I haven’t listened to this particular episode yet. But…

You’ve probably heard about imposter syndrome (which can lead people to self-sabotage) as there has been so much discussion about it the last few years.

Specific to what you’ve written though: Have you ever revisited the dummy you submitted to the publisher? Were you comfortable with how you handled everything? Was there a page turn or transition or anything else that you felt you hadn’t exactly nailed as well as you would’ve liked? Have you considered just reworking and submitting it to other publishers?

Sometimes intuition kicks in and we instinctively make the right decisions even if the logic behind it doesn’t come for years after. As far as the publisher that interviewed you, were they asking you to change what you considered to be a wordless picture book by adding text (you said you hadn’t written a manuscript for it). Or was there anything during the interview that might have turned you off a bit towards them (i.e. spinach in the art director’s teeth)?

Even just getting so much feedback from a publisher is a success.

Your success isn’t contingent on how much or how little you family supports you. It may be a struggle emotionally, but in the end it’s up to you.

Thanks for your thoughtful response, @RachelArmington, much appreciated. I hadn’t thought of imposter syndrome, really ought to do a deep dive into that. I suspect it dovetails sharply with “fear of success.”

My book dummy at the time consisted of about a dozen pages, maybe half a book, because A. I hadn’t finished writing it and B. I was CLUELESS at the time about submissions and book dummies. In retrospect it’s a miracle I got any response at all. The art director I met with was extremely encouraging, and said she couldn’t wait to read the rest of the story. I couldn’t bear to tell her it didn’t exist yet, so I nodded and said I’d send it along right away. Then I just… collapsed, for all the reasons mentioned.

I suppose it’s worth a look at that story, if only to figure out what was attractive enough about it to warrant a response from a Top 5 children’s publisher, which, if I’m honest, the significance of which was truly lost on me as a total newbie. I just had no idea back then how great it was to even get a callback. The fact that my folks (and husband at the time) were so unimpressed only confused me more, I guess. Never listen to your parents!!

[Jules]

Wow this was a great podcast episode! This past school year I had a major 15 piece project that I had to complete and it left me feeling burnt out. I had a lot of people say great things about it, but they left me with a sort of fear of success that my next year’s project will fall short. Because of this pressure and some leftover burn out, I have been avoiding next years art project despite a lot of ideas that I am excited about working on. Every time I sit down I just freeze up.
Has this happened to anyone else? What do you do to move past it?