Opinions on Authors sending fully illustrated books with paid for illustrations to publishers

[Nathalie Kranich]

Hey guys, I'd love some takes on this as it occasionally comes up when I work with private clients.

I work with quite a few people that intent to self-publish as the workload and pay have turned out to be quite rewarding for me. Generally, my terms state that their rights only allow them to print and distribute the book themselves, and I want input if a third party, such as a publisher, was to ever be involved.

There are those authors that don't aim to self publish but actually do want to approach a publisher with their book once it's illustrated. I have always advised against that because from my understanding, publishers often like to choose their own illustrators and want more input on the project. On top of that, of course, I don't like to let my illustrations go to a publisher with potentially much greater budget without retaining the rights to negotiate on that point.

But I'm curious now if I am actually right about that, or if anyone has different opinions in how to best advise prospective authors. Basically, I don't want them to waste money on illustrating a project that might not require illustrations yet if they're inquiring with publishers, lest all those illustrations end up falling to the wayside anyway.

I know author-illustrator combos are a different affair as publishers might like to work with one person for both, but where the author has just paid for illustrations as a done deal, is this happily scene by publishers?

Generally I offer these authors to illustrate a dummy book so they can show their idea for the book without setting everything in stone or paying too much upfront.

What do you guys think about that?

[NessIllustration]

@Nathalie-Kranich The only "publishers" I've heard who accept fully illustrated manuscripts on a consistent basis are vanity publishers...

[mag]

@Nathalie-Kranich Hi!
Me too, I am often approached by authors who want to try and traditionally publish. I always tell them not to hire an illustrator. It's stupid, reputable publishers will never accept such a submission - even I, as an author-illustrator, do not send a finished book! I only make a book dummy. It's a waste of time for the illustrator and a waste of money for the author.
I advise them to use author notes instead.

[Melissa_Bailey]

@Nathalie-Kranich you're right about that. Publishers don't want to see fully illustrated picture book submissions.

In submission guidelines from publishers and agents, ALL of them say that they do not want to see artwork unless the submission is from an author-illustrator. So even offering to sketch out a dummy for an author who doesn't illustrate is a waste of that author's money -- when they submit to publishers and/or agents, no one is going to want to see that dummy.

I've worked with self-publishers for over 10 years, and I always tell them that if they think there's even a slight possibility that they're going to submit to a publisher, they shouldn't hire me. They're not ready for an illustrator. They should try submitting first, and then if they do decide for sure that self-publishing is for them, then approach an illustrator.

[NessIllustration]

@Melissa_Bailey I've always wondered why the overwhelming majority of authors seem to assume they need illustrations to submit, at their expense And since it's a major expense, why wouldn't they at least double-check it beforehand? It baffles me.

[Nathalie Kranich]

Ha, awesome, thank you guys! That puts my mind at ease at least that I'm not ill-advising anyone if I put a stop to any fully illustrated books intended for publishers.

@Melissa_Bailey I'll keep that in mind about dummy books in future too. I think a lot of authors just want to hold something in hand that gives them THEIR vision and they're just excited to jump in. Sketches, I can fortunately offer at a prize that I feel won't be a major loss to them if they do think it's right for them, but I'll be sure to advise in future that really no illustrations is the best approach for an author intending to inquire with publishers.

I like the work coming my way of course, but it's too great an expense to in good conscience let anyone jump into

@NessIllustration It is baffling, but then there's sadly no shortage of authors that generally don't do much research into the publishing or self-publishing process. So many people really jump into it straight after finishing their very first story.

[Nyrryl Cadiz]

@NessIllustration the only conclusion I can think of is that they did not do their research.

[Nyrryl Cadiz]

@Nathalie-Kranich I’d say they’re shooting themselves at the foot. Now, they have a lesser chance of getting published than had they submitted with manuscript only.

[Melissa_Bailey]

@NessIllustration Yes! Exactly. @Nyrryl-Cadiz and @Nathalie-Kranich said it. Many of the authors I work with haven't done much research about the children's book market, if any. They don't know how the industry works, don't read current books in their genre, don't know popular children's book authors, and some haven't heard of SCBWI. They go to Facebook and YouTube to learn and are told that writing and publishing children's books is easy. They go to Fiverr and similar freelance services marketplaces to hire affordable illustrators. Programs like Canva and platforms like KDP make it easy for virtual DIY publishing. So it's no surprise when they don't know anything about the submission process for traditional publishing.

This isn't every author I work with. Some are very knowledgeable. I don't want to stereotype anyone, but many self-publishers fit the above pattern.

[Mimi Simon]

I don't understand why publishers don't like author illustrator teams as a rule. If i was an author I'd definitely want to choose the illustrator myself and work with him directly. I'd think theres nothing more disappointing for an author than their story getting published with illustrations they don't like or with illustration that don't communicate what they envisioned.

[NessIllustration]

@Mimi-Simon Tthe main problem is that most authors don't know much about what makes good art, or especially what makes good picture book illustration, what skills to look out for in a portfolio, what style fits their manuscript's tone, or what styles are trendy and sell well at the moment.

It would be like me interviewing someone for a lab science job Most authors are not at all equipped to make this decision!

[Nyrryl Cadiz]

@Melissa_Bailey so true. If a potential self publishing client does not know what a 'double-spread' or 'manuscript' is, I immediately know they did not do their research, best to proceed with extreme caution.

[Mimi Simon]

@NessIllustration I believe you (never underestimate peoples ignorance lol) but honestly I find that inascusasble. Authors writing picture books are working specifically in a visual medium. If they are not educating themselves on what makes picture books, good/popular/trendy/appealing etc as a whole including the art (which is half or more of a picture book) why the hell are they trying to work in this business? As an artist I study what makes good stories and what kind of stories are popular and what kind of art works with what kind of stories. Why should it be any different for authors?

[NessIllustration]

@Mimi-Simon I agree with you! Most authors really don't do enough (if at all) research about the industry, the publishing process, and the art. For the art specifically, there's this tendency mostly by authors and readers to devalue the work of illustrators. Many articles about picture books, reviews, book signing events, interviews etc focus entirely on writers, with illustrators often forgotten and treated like a hired hand like the printer is

So it's a bigger problem, but even though the authors should do more research, it's also true art directors will still know more about art and be better equipped to make this decision. Just like how we encourage authors to get their manuscript professionally edited instead of trying to do it all themselves, art directors are experts at this and results will often be optimal if the author lets them do them thing - no matter how much research they've done.

[kayleenartlover]

I have a similar question, what should you submit if you want to be both author and illustrator? What would it look like if it’s not a manuscript or a book dummy? Is it one of those or somewhere inbetween?

[Melissa_Bailey]

@kayleenartlover If you want to be the author and illustrator of your book, agents and publishers expect to see a book dummy. Some agents request that you query first before sending a book dummy, but most ask that author-illustrators send a dummy with their query. Publishers expect to see dummies in submissions from author-illustrators.

Either way, if you're an author-illustrator, you should have a dummy ready before submitting.

[kayleenartlover]

@Melissa_Bailey Thanks! I’m learning about book dummy’s and SVS’s writing course will probably cover queries so I’m sure I’ll learn about what those look like eventually.

[Melissa_Bailey]

@kayleenartlover if you're an SCBWI member, there is a chapter about how to create book dummies in their Essential Guide to Publishing For Children, a free digital download for all members. There is also a chapter about query letters.

Jane Friedman and Upstart Crow Literary have also written good articles about writing query letters.