Is there a time to graduate from SVS?

chrisaakins · 9 Jun 2022, 02:49

I first must confess that I am a little disappointed in not getting picked for the top 16 this month. I thought my entry was one of my best illustrations so far and I worked really hard on it. I realize that it might be a matter of simple taste and that many works this month were awesome and there can only be 16. The others that were selected were very strong and totally deserve to be there. I am not complaining or saying my work should be there. I am just very pleased with it and like it. My biggest concern about not being picked is wondering if my piece was way off and I am too blind to see it.

I think really though I need to evaluate whether It is helpful to keep entering.

So, the question is, do I keep entering these contests? I have seen vast improvement in my work and have met several of my goals. I have won a couple times, I have been top 16 several times. Jake Will andLee have said in several contests that my work is pro level. I am getting regular illustration work (more than I can keep up with). I don’t necessarily need more portfolio pieces. Is there a benefit to keep doing the contests? I know I have lots of room for improvement but I feel like I know what I need to work on now and nothing to prove to anyone.

I am not sure the benefits are there for me anymore. Unless you are picked as an honorable mention if you don’t make the top 16 you don’t know why. So you don’t know if you need to improve or Simply that your artwork is just not to Lee, Will, and Jake’s taste. And is it worth the self-doubts that generates? I also have taken all the courses I need up to this point to be proficient at this endeavor.

What are your thoughts? Does there come a point where you say, I am ready to move on and “graduate” from SVS?

Asyas_illos · 9 Jun 2022, 03:31

I can understand your frustration, I really liked your piece it was very moody. I think as far as svs is concerned, if you’ve taken the classes you felt you needed, and you find that you haven’t been compelled to work through any other courses, or maybe you’ve completed them all, it might be wise to invest your time and money elsewhere, make an upgrade (childbook pro perhaps?) But that leads to the matter of critique arena. I think there are benefits to entering them, of course, the main one IMO is the accountability. Having that goal drives me to complete something or things that I otherwise would have just said “meh” but it also has helped me personally to nail down my style. I don’t have any illustration job experience so it’s important to me to make sure I am at least drawing as often as I can, so that I’m prepared. Also, even if you don’t make any “place” you can still learn from things said in regards to others’ work. Learn from the mistakes of others. But if you’re entering the contests with just the intention of winning just to win, then you’re entering for the wrong reasons. I’m not telling to quit or not to quit, you just need to weigh the pros and cons a little more and decide what’s best. Helpful? Yes no, maybe? Good luck with your debate!

Meekipink · 9 Jun 2022, 04:01

@chrisaakins Hi, Chris! I believe you've reached the point where you don't need the validation any longer. You said yourself, you've reached your goals, you have enough portfolio pieces, you're getting steady illustration work. Basically, you're a pro. You've arrived. You're there. That's.... man, that's an absolutely phenomenal position to be in - well done!!!

Don't think of the critique arena as a measure of your skill or worth - that's definitely not the intent of the judges. If entering is doing more harm than good, take a well-deserved break and enjoy the contest as a spectator, encouraging and supporting the other participants.

If solid, substantial feedback on your pieces from a reliable critic is what feel you need to move forward in your career, I'd consider joining something like @Lee-white's feedback tier on Patreon.

In any case, my advice is don't get bogged down second-guessing your work. It's (chef's kiss) superb. The Critique Arena is meant to be fun! The best, most polished, anatomically-correct, professional-looking pieces don't always make the cut - and that's totally fine, because illustration, especially children's book illustration, can be crazy, messy, evocative, ugly, super simple, crazy detailed, and everything in-between.

PS: Your pieces was awesome!! But I would have loved to have seen you push the energy even further with dramatic lighting (there wasn't enough contrast between outside and inside), and maybe tweaking the chickens to look even crazier like they're afraid they're going to die, haha. Like, really commit to the storm, up the ante, increase the wind, the rain, the puddles, have some trees blowing around in the background. Or make it funny, add some cows and horses flying around ^_^ That would have been something!

chrisaakins · 9 Jun 2022, 10:32

@Meekipink thanks so much for your feedback! I appreciate the words of encouragement and the constructive criticism.

PenAndrew · 9 Jun 2022, 10:53

@chrisaakins This is a tough question as we all feel the disappointment with these competitions(probably 80+ people). This month there were over 100 entries! I really liked your piece so I just think it was a matter of personal preference and whatever the judges are looking for each time- to be honest this is a bit of a mystery even after they detail what makes a good illustration and the set rules for a prompt.

I think you should not be discouraged Chris as your work is very strong and you are getting paid work- you are a professional. I think it's only human to be disappointed because of not being accepted and happy to have one's work validated. The thing is a competition is too open compared to the real world of illustration.

This is what creates a lot of ambiguity, and mystery. Hang onto your previous successes as an illustrator and don't forget that. Your work is Great!

ArtistErin · 9 Jun 2022, 13:44

Chris- just giving you a perspective that I hope helps you... I'm not even published yet and naturally I'm dreaming of being in your shoes someday, yet find myself wondering if I'm good enough, to be in this business, among so many incredible artists in this forum and beyond. I didn't get picked either to be in the top 16, though last month I was close and given Honorable Mention. That was inspiring to me!!! This time I scrutinized my piece under the microscope of "Why am I even doing these competitions?" That said, of course, being a newbie here I honestly can't say I completely know where you're at because I am not in your shoes yet I am very familiar with disappointment and so many other negative emotions that follow. I noticed a habit of thought surfacing that stops me from progressing and having any fun here, I call it "comparison-Schlager" (worse than JagerMeister sp?) Therefore, I can't be my best self by noticing I wasn't picked.

I see the broad spectrum of choices and submissions puts Lee, Will, and Jake in a position of choosing pieces that reflect best from where they stand. I have found in really honestly looking at my submission I could have done some things better and that's why I realized THAT is why I do the contests. Not an indictment, rather an indication of what I need to improve my craft. And, it's not that I am not good or talented, it's that I just want to improve and then, so feedback is just relative.

Looking at your piece, I see you have some great movement, and a cool shift in perspective with the angular lines. I noticed you originally had it square and perpendicular and you asked about how to change the dynamic... Your interest in developing honestly helped me, in seeing how to create instability this way. Don't forget your growth and sincere interest in being good in this profession drives those of us watching from cyberspace... So keep up the excellent work, because I appreciate your skills and talent.

I do think if you pushed the emotion further by amplifying the expression on the boy's face, amp up the storm even further- add more animals rushing in (I used to work in an animal sanctuary so I can relate to the frenetic behavior of storms and all the crazy!!!) and even make the boy larger so he's more of the focal point? Just a few ideas.

Hope this helps- and keep going because you're a pro and I look forward to seeing your work.

chrisaakins · 9 Jun 2022, 14:31

@ArtistErin THat is one aspect I had not considered, By publishing my progress and thinking that I may be helping others. I have certainly benefitted from that process as others farther ahead of me like @braydin-hawlette or @lizardillo go through their thinking process. As they did so I saw where I needed to improve my planning and benefitted from others' perspectives as they commented and critiqued.

@PenAndrew thanks for the words of encouragement. It's hard to think of oneself as a pro even when being paid to create illustrations. I appreciate your kind words.

In reading everyone's feedback I hear everyone saying it could have had a little more action or energy. I can see that. I think my aims for the illustration may have been at odds with the competition in which the goal is to wow the judges. I wanted more realism and a natural feeling. I felt at the time going "bigger" would seem too outlandish. I wasn't looking for Dorothy escaping the tornado but the everyday experience of being caught at the beginning of a thunderstorm while doing chores. More Laura Ingle's Wilder.

( now I am wondering " are we oversaturating our kids with frenetic images and making their tiny attention spans even shorter ?!" hahaha I'm an old geezer! hahaha)

Kristen Lango · 9 Jun 2022, 16:04

@chrisaakins I really relate to a lot of things you've brought up in this post, so first things first, you're not alone

Secondly, one key thing I take away from critique arena is the conceptual aspect of illustration - what I mean to say is that techniques aside, the contest helps me to see that my conceptual idea creation isn't at the level it should be.

That said, your piece was lovely and had a lot of emotion in that expression and movement, but I think when I see it next to others (and this goes for my work as well) it doesn't exactly feel like a fresh new idea with a clever twist to it.

Again, everything I'm saying is what I also say to myself. I think it's really easy for us to look at our work and say "I've spent 30 hours on this, I've nailed the perspective and gesture and lighting, so why isn't it in the top 16?" And when I've asked myself that question the answer is usually: well it lacks that uniqueness of a truly creative concept.

I hope this is useful to you and know that you're not the only one struggling with the self-doubt... and however cheesy it sounds haha I think you can grow from that doubt rather than give into it. I hope you figure out what's right for you

chrisaakins · 9 Jun 2022, 17:10

@Kristen-Lango ahh the bane of concept versus execution. I seem to execute well or have a cool concept but I struggle with marrying the two. I am thinking now that this piece would be a sort of intro to the story and as Will said once, " when entering these pics that are a one-shot deal, you have to give me the "money shot", not the lead up to the money shot." haha!

Well, I am still not sure I will continue to enter the contests and renew my membership at the end of the summer. Honestly, at this point, I was only keeping the membership up to enter the contests. Not sure that is a good use of my money and time. Last year it paid off because I won twice. This year I have only had one piece break into the top 16. CUZ EVERYONE IS LIKE STEPPING UP THEIR GAME!!! haha! Seriously, I thought I did a cool tree house and then I looked at everyone else's and was like "Whoa, the lessons were totally learned from the Fairy Tale Inn and Albert's home (two that I won) Everyone had great shapes and cool designs that were very original. I need to step up my game. " Everyone did a great job of thinking outside the box and adding awesome storytelling elements. I thought my boat in a tree idea was unique and original and I ended up being like one of ten people to do so and theirs were way cooler! haha!

So kudos to everyone. As an art teacher, I love seeing everyone growing so fast as artists. I think though that I need to focus more on the business side: getting a portfolio critique, sending out postcards, hustling for more business, etc. I have loved the accountability and the community. It would have been nice to get on that final scoreboard along with the " greats" but I think I need to settle for "hey I get to draw for a living and that's way cool!"

Kristen Lango · 9 Jun 2022, 19:38

@chrisaakins haha I totally get everything you're saying! And oh my gosh I know about the treehouses! I was really impressed and intimidated, and the same goes for this month with storm too!

Definitely I think there's a time to focus on the skills and a time to focus on business - I'm not sure doing both at the same time is really the best way or even possible for that matter.

It sounds like you know where you're headed and what your next steps are, so hats off!

And congratulations on being able to make art for a living! Such a huge win in it's own right.

PenAndrew · 9 Jun 2022, 23:15

@chrisaakins Hopefully you will still stay on the forums and participate in that even if you decide not to continue your subscription. You may need a break and then come back to SVS in the near future. I am sure you will be missed if you leave us here, so I hope you stay on the forums.

My art teacher at school was responsible for inspiring me to become an artist. His name was Mr Marshall. I wish I could have said thanks to him for being kind and liking my art. Another student told me how much he liked my work, I guess she was kind too, to share that knowledge to an insecure teen, as I was back then.

The seemingly small things that we share and give are really priceless and the real treasures that resonate throughout our lives.

10 Jun 2022, 02:11

@chrisaakins Thanks Chris and everyone else for sharing here. As someone who doesn't have an artistic peer group (since I was from a completely different industry) being able to commiserate with other artists on frustrations and disappointments is also really valuable.

So maybe that's another reason to keep putting your work out there, whether through contests or otherwise. You never know when someone is learning from or being inspired by it!

PenAndrew · 10 Jun 2022, 03:07

@JQ Yes, you are not alone with feeling disappointment. All creatives feel it.

demotlj · 10 Jun 2022, 20:31

As someone who has been "with you" on the forum since very early on, let me be honest -- I don't think you don't need to enter the contests anymore. You have improved immensely since you started, you are a very good artist, you have a style that is your own, and as you said, the contests don't really provide the kind of critiques which might benefit you at the level you have now achieved. While I think the contests can help build portfolios and provide insight into story-telling and composition, etc. they can also become an exercise in trying to "learn the judges" and even they admit that sometimes it just comes down to very subjective choices.

I'm not putting down the contests -- I think they are fun -- but they can become self-defeating when they make us question our art. I actually came to where you are a few months ago and decided to stop entering the contests. This is partly because I am doing more nature watercolors and less illustration these days but it is mainly because I realized that the emotional uncertainty that resulted from my not making the top 16 wasn't helping me. I had a few Top 16's under my belt -- enough to make me feel Iike I'm not an absolute hack -- but I am now at a point where I need to trust my own artistic vision and style. Every time I didn't get into the top 16, I went a few steps backward in developing that self-trust so I finally said to myself, "The benefits of entering are no longer outweighing the costs to my confidence," and I stopped entering.

Unlike you, I am not looking to be a professional illustrator so my goals are different, but I think the forum might be a better place for you to get feedback and critiques on your work if you need it than the contest. There is more back and forth in the forum, the forum allows you to do follow-up corrections, and it won't leave you guessing as to why you didn't get chosen for the critique arena.

All of this lengthy epistle is to say to you then: I do believe you have graduated from the contests, summa cum laude.

jenn · 10 Jun 2022, 22:13

Everything that has been said in this thread is resonating with me. I am feeling discouraged too and reading everyone's experiences and encouragement has been very validating. I am a teacher too and feeling very burned out. It is so difficult to keep from taking these personally and also to keep believing in the dream of professionally illustrating. Thank you @chrisaakins for sharing your thoughts on the topic. I was too shy to do that.

PenAndrew · 11 Jun 2022, 03:49

@demotlj Yes, I agree with many of these points, I think if we are trying to build up our confidence and find it being diminished it is not helpful, and I think there's a danger of trying to produce work that pleases the judges but doesn't please ourselves.

I am new to the contests but I am feeling a slight detrimental affect on my confidence and study. I joined SVS primarily to study and second to enter the contests. Now I find the contests hold to big a sway on me and my time.
I do also think the forum is the best place to go for a critique because many voices can come our way and we can listen to some or ignore them and learn something in the process.

PenAndrew · 11 Jun 2022, 03:51

@jenn @chrisaakins Yes, thanks Chris for being brave expressing these thoughts and feelings. So, you see your contribution here in the forum is very valuable.

Jeremy Ross · 12 Jun 2022, 16:50

Hi @chrisaakins, I’m with you man!

I stopped entering the contests after my Tiger piece to take a break and focus on learning, strengthening my fundamentals and doing more master studies of work I admired. I don’t have much free time for art, so I rather learn than work on a contest piece.

After entering every contest early on in my art studies, it took me a while to make Sweet 16, but then I started making it in. Few times I made it to top 4, but never won. I built a good portfolio with emphasis on storytelling and the contests helped me do this.

Now, I’m just trying to practice as much as I can to be “To good they can’t ignore me”, as Cal Newport says.

I have zero social media, and love the fact that when I create art, it’s just for me.

In closing, you have definitely graduated and no longer need to compete.

That’s right Chris, you’re a bad ass!

Cheers mate!

chrisaakins · 12 Jun 2022, 17:58

@Jeremy-Ross hahaha! Thanks Jeremy!

NessIllustration · 12 Jun 2022, 18:37

@chrisaakins I have personally never entered the contests! They seem fun and can be helpful in making portfolio pieces and get feedback, however if you already have a portfolio and are getting professional work, then your time can probably be better spent querying, working on contracts or building a second income stream Certainly you shouldn't feel any obligation to keep entering the contests every months if you're not getting much from them anymore.