Question for digital work.
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I am looking into some digital options for the future. Right now I have Adobe Photoshop CS3 on a PC with a mouse. Usually I work traditionally and use digital to touch things up a bit. It would be cool to venture into digital a bit more. Two ideas I'm looking into are Surface Pro's and Cintiq's. What are your thoughts on either one? Are they worth it? Do you have something else you prefer? Thanks in advance for your thoughts!
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@frogpunzel In terms of a tablet, I think I'd steer towards an ipad versus the surface pro. There's really nothing coming close to how responsive the apple pencil is going to be.
I think what I'd be doing in your shoes since you're just looking at dabbling is one of the following:
- Pick up a refurbished baseline iPad for $279 and buy a $89 apple pencil for it and then grab Procreate for $15.
- Buy a used 16" Cintiq on ebay or something like that when you see a good deal - something around $300-400.
Either of those options would end up taking you pretty far and you wouldn't need to invest anything else for years down the road if or when you decide you might take it up to another level.
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@frogpunzel I like @jdubz's used Cintiq idea. I paid full price for mine several years ago when it was the only Cintiq pro available, but it revolutionized my output. Then again, I was committed to digital. I would also buy the largest Cintiq you can get. Used is probably ok, as no doubt there are people out there who get them and then don't use them.
If you go with an iPad, I think the Pro with the Apple Pencil 2 is the only one with pressure? (@jdubz correct me if I'm wrong, please.) And there should be used options for those as well.
Pencil pressure, in my opinion, is a must. It will take a little while to learn the programs, but you will have so many more options! Have fun!
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If you go with an iPad, I think the Pro with the Apple Pencil 2 is the only one with pressure? (@jdubz correct me if I'm wrong, please.) And there should be used options for those as well.
No, the standard iPad with the original pencil works great. That's the one I'm using currently. You just can't use the pencil 2 with the original - it only works with the pro.
The main reason I suggest getting the iPad refurbished (from Apple's own refurbished store) instead of used is that you get the 30% discount and it's covered under Apple's standard 1-year warranty.
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@frogpunzel You can also purchase used Cintiques directly from Wacom. That way if there is an issue you can return it. I did this and it was in perfect condition!
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I have had a Cintiq 21HD that I have used since 2014. It’s gathering dust a bit since I have been using my iPad and Procreate. I have the 2nd gen iPad Pro 12.9” (the one with the thicker bezels top and bottom and the home button) and an Apple Pencil 1. If I need to use Photoshop I tend to use the Astropad app so I can use my iPad as a graphics tablet with my MacBook so I don’t need to be at my desk. This is normally for jobs that are beyond Procreates limits or to finish/tweak Procreate files. I’m addicted to Procreate now! Procreate does have its limitations such as layer quantity restrictions and it pixelates when you move/scale.
The Cintiq 21HD is sturdy piece of kit, I’ve had it 8 years and it’s got many years left in it (as long as software updates don’t make it obsolete). They do not make them anymore but may be on the secondhand market.
As mentioned above, reconditioned ones from Apple or Wacom are a good buy.
Just a note, if you upgrade from CS3 to CC to go with your choice of tablet or iPad (by the way PS on iPad is terrible) you will have to pay their subscription fee. Both Affinity Designer and Clip Studio Pro are good alternatives to Photoshop if you are not tied into the industry Adobe ecosystem (which I am unfortunately).
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@jdubz Great advice!
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Hi friends - Let me know if I should start a new thread about this, since it is a month old. I'd like to upgrade from an Intuos 4 (PTK-640) to a Cintiq.
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Question 1: Pro or regular? If I get a new one, is the etched glass surface and perceived sturdiness worth the $$$$ for someone just starting out?
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Question 2: Does anyone have information about older models? What do HD, DTK, UX, WX/DTZ signify? Googling these models just puts me on the Wacom page for their current model. Were there different versions equivalent to 'Pro' and regular, or should I just go by size and generation?
All opinions and advice are appreciated.
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@frogpunzel - Apologies for being a bit long-winded here, but hopefully it's helpful!
I was previously using a Mac Pro tower from 2008, coupled with a Wacom bluetooth Intuos tablet. It was all I could afford/justify spending the money on, not being a pro-illustrator. Took a while to get used to looking directly at the screen instead of what I was "drawing" on, but it worked.
My tower was getting pretty darn long-in-the-tooth, and it eventually got the point where I was unable to/refused to update it any longer, BUT, I also owned all of my programs. I really dislike subscriptions and would rather own my programs outright.
This past year I finally decided I'd upgrade my computer. I wanted something that was portable, that I could load Clip Studio Paint onto (I bought the EX version), and that had a touch-screen with the Wacom AES standard so I could draw on it like a Cintiq. I wound up getting a Samsung Galaxybook Pro 360, and I've really been enjoying it.
It comes with their S-Pen, and drawing on it is extremely similar to a Cintiq. They've two different sizes (13" or 15") and different build configurations depending what other specs you might be after. Perhaps if I can justify spending the money on a Cintiq, I might spring for one if I want more real estate for drawing (though the 15" version of my computer is pretty great).
I had looked at some Ipads, but couldn't justify their cost, nor the limitations that come with a tablet that can't run computer based programs. Everyone's needs are different, and it's pretty great how many options are available now. The folks in the forum over at https://forum.tabletpcreview.com/ were super helpful in recommending what I purchased (and it wasn't even on my radar at the time). I gave them some basic info regarding what I was looking for, what my workflow is like, how much I wanted to spend, and they offered up a bunch of suggestions. The forum is going to shut down at the end of this month, so they're working on moving over to a new site.
Happy to share more if you have any questions. I hope you find something that works for you and that you love to work on!
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I have an iPad Pro with Apple Pencil, I LOVE IT! But I’ve never used others so I might be a bit biased. I work in procreate, again LOVE IT.
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On your 2 questions:
- If you haven't experienced etched glass before, then you won't really know what you're missing. It basically just adds a little tooth to the screen.
The main difference between the Pro and Regular is going to be resolution. On the 16 inch, 1920x1080 is plenty. But on the larger 22 inch the issue is you're going to physically see the pixels. The next leap up from the "HD" resolution, which is the 1080p (1920x1080), is going to be QHD, which is 2560x1440. I'm pretty sure Wacom only has two options - HD and 4k. Their competitors went QHD to compete. The wacom pro models are going to all be in that that sweet 4k spectrum.
- The older models are almost all going to be operating on a 1080p "HD" resolution. So it's sort of like buying a non-pro version. I believe the major difference between the current models and the older ones is going to be the connectivity and buttons.
The old models might connect to the computer in increasingly more archaic ways. Newer models might use for example a single USB-C connection for power and display. Really old models going way back will use an old fashion blue VGA cable bundled into a big thick stack of wires for USB and power. I think the DTK models used HDMI but you might want to double check that. For the most part Wacom is going to be pretty good on drivers so I don't think you'd end up getting an older model so old it won't even work.
I think the DTK was the most recent one before the current line. And I believe the question here is whether or not you think express keys are something you want or not. None of the new models have physical buttons on them - they want you to use the little floating module if you want that.
In the end, the question of "value" is really what you have to spend. If you had $3000 lying around and had nothing better to do with it and you bought the Wacom 24" Pro with the really cool pro stand I can't imagine a world where you would regret having it. That 4k vibrant laminated etched glass screen will literally ooze vibrant colors into your ocular sockets.
But if you need to be budget conscious and what you spend makes a big difference, what you're doing is making trade-offs based on what gives you the best bang for your buck. I would guess you would probably regret getting the non-pro 22" for example. A used DTK 21.5" is probably inexpensive enough to make that resolution concession livable for the foreseeable future.
I would also guess you would not really notice 4k on the 16 all that much. So the non-pro 16" and an older DTK 16" are going to be very comparable.
Any of those would give you years and years of life. The one that will probably give you the most future proofing would be the pro model.
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Same here @asyas_illos, 100% iPad Pro with Procreate for time being, though I’m keen to using adobe products (e.g., photoshop, I design, etc.) once I break into the industry. We’ll see…
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@lizardillo I know you mention the scaling and layer limits but aside from that what are the situations that you feel like you need photoshop for?
After the recent 3PP episode where they talked about needing to use photoshop it made me start to think I should really start learning but the thing is that photoshop ain’t cheap and I haven’t yet found myself is a situation where I felt like I really needed it. Just trying to get some more perspective on this
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@griffin I agree with Jeremy. I bought a 12 inch iPad Pro and Procreate. This is my tool to learn digital and illustration. I'll enter the market as a writer with hopes of acquiring enough skill to illustrate my own work. If that happens, I'll follow the advice of our fearless leaders and ad the Cintiq and photoshop combo. At that time I'll also upgrade to a new computer. After many years of keeping my farm going with used machinery, held together with duct tape and baling twine, I've learned that sometimes it's more efficient to pay extra for the right tools that don't need tweaking.
One way to progress is to buy what you need to get started such as the iPad and Procreate and make it pay for itself by illustrating and designing small things for local businesses or for sale, like tee-shirts, etc. I made a custom birthday card for my neighbor's daughter. It cost $5 to set up and 50 cents a card to print at a local print shop. I have a paper cutter and cut and folded them myself. If you came up with a really clever holiday card, you might make enough sales to pay for an iPad in one season.Once paid for, you can purchase the next tool for your work. Cheers!
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I use an iPad Pro and switch between working with Procreate, and then I use Astropad to turn it into a Cintiq of sorts. I love this system because it is very versatile. I can take my iPad out to dinner or an airplane to work, or I can use it with Astropad to work in Photoshop. Win/win.
That said, I also have a Wacom tablet, and it's really great to be able to switch back and forth between close in drawing on the iPad, and then far away painting with the Wacom.
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@Griffin I was hired to illustrate movie posters for a TV show and normally I use the iPad Pro with Procreate almost exclusively. The problem was the size requirement that they needed to import them into film. The images were so large that I could only do 4 layers. Photoshop does not have that restriction. I was forced to use Photoshop to finish the images. Another thing that Photoshop does better is using fill layers and creating shadows and lighting fixes. Procreate's version of a fill layer is to color the entire layer in a color. Not at all what Photoshop allows you to do.
Also, I bought at Huion 22 Pro with the proceeds from that money. It is probably not as nice as a Cintiq but it does the job for the work I have been hired to do which so far has actually been a lot of Adobe illustrator work. (Go figure! And thanks forever to @SarahLuAnn for her amazingly helpful videos!)
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@griffin sorry I’ve just seen this. I use Photoshop for extra image adjustments and exporting for any Procreate files. I’ve used PS for over 20 years so I know it inside-out, it’s just what I’m used to. Procreate can export as .psd files if you need to supply open layered artwork.
If you have not found any situation that you have needed Photoshop then you probably don’t need it at the moment. There is a lot of powerful features in there but if you are not feeling you are lacking anything in what you are using at the moment, you are not missing them. As long as you have your print/digital specs before you start you can make sure your files are set up correctly and work within those specifications and you’re all good. As long as the finished file is correct, that’s what matters. Procreate is just limited to the iPad’s hardware, as that improves then Procreate limitations will decrease.
A full Adobe licence is a lot of money, I only have it as I’m a graphic designer and I need it because I use the full Creative Suite and Adobe has a monopoly on the design industry. Can you still get the just Photoshop licence which is cheaper? Or try the free trial and see if it’s something you want? If you are thinking of large-scale work, design, interactive/digital, retouching images or combining photo/traditional then it’s the way to go.
There’s some good up-and-coming options to look into so Adobe’s stranglehold may loosen up a bit one day.
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@jdubz Thank you for taking the time to write and share the breakdown and your perspective. It was very helpful in cutting through the marketing jargon and helps prioritize/evaluate features across the old and new models. You Rock!!
@jdubz said in Question for digital work.:
That 4k vibrant laminated etched glass screen will literally ooze vibrant colors into your ocular sockets.
LOL!!!
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@ghostshipmatt Thanks for sharing your perspective. That sounds like a pretty intriguing alternative setup you have built. I'm in a similar situation, looking to replace a 2011 iMac/Intuos combo. I agree with you about the precious non-subscription version of CS, which is why I waited so long. I hadn't even considered switching to Windows though, and your positive experience is encouraging. ClipStudio Paint-EX is definitely on my radar, too.
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