Thumbnailing process advice needed

ArtMelC

So, I am struggling with thumbnailing. I know what they are and why it is important to try different compositions before committing, but I usually get stuck in the thumbnailing stage for too long because:

After completing the first thumbnail, I will have no clue on what to modify or try for the next one. I often have to take walk/ go out/ watch a movie/ do chores and come back a few hours later to come up with a second thumbnail.
Due to the long time needed, under the preasure of deadlines, I usually can only make 2-4 thumbnails before picking one, which is far from the ideal 10-50.

I think I am not a very visual person (I don't really see vivid images in my imagination). Brainstorming ideas in words is quick for me, but visuals need to be carefully "translated" or assembled into a thumbnail. Anyone has struggled with the issue? How do you overcome it? Do you have a checklist of thumbnail variations to try as a reminder?

Chantal Goetheer

@ArtMelC I recognise the vague images in the head and that it's easier for me too to brainstorm in words. My ideas always start in words and mostly not with an image. I mostly get stuck in wanting to put in too much details. But you could make variations on the same idea by changing camera position: low looking up, medium, high up in the air looking down. You might also play with foreground, middle ground and background and corresponding to that values. Maybe in one thumbnail the character is in the foreground and the other in the middle ground. Or you try to change items or environments. Instead of a forest you might add a river scène, or change scale and go for big mushrooms. In this way it might be easier to get to 10. 50 is always a challenge I think and might be more about small variations than big differences. Hope this is useful to you!

ArtMelC

@Chantal-Goetheer Ooh thank you! Moving the character across from foreground/middle/background is something I haven't tried before

kirsten-mcg

@ArtMelC I think I have the opposite visualizing problem as you, but I've struggled with thumbnails as well. My problem is that I see images very clearly in my head, and so I tend to get stuck on the first one that pops in and have trouble changing it! I use all the tricks @Chantal-Goetheer mentioned about moving the camera angle around, looking at the image from a different side or angel, high low, close or distant, etc. I've also found it helps me to have brainstorming sessions where I just write. I write down all my ideas of how to portray a specific concept or idea. The writing is mostly in list form, or short little sentence descriptions. This has really helped me to do more visual exploring. I typically do thumb nailing after this stage now and base my thumbnails on the different written ideas.

ArtMelC

@kirsten-mcg Thank you. I need to learn not to dismiss things from my head to quickly while thumbnailing. Now that I am conscious of the process, I realize what my brain does: I will come up with ok try a low angle and my brain immediately goes, "No that angle wouldn't make sense because I won't be able to see bla bla" hahaha it's so hard

willicreate

Adding to what Chantal wrote.. Consider what you're trying to say in the scene. Like with movies, changing the camera angle or cropping can tell a completely different narrative.

Let's take for example an moment between mother and child hugging each other. Should the viewer see both characters faces? Should the camera pull in so we only focus on the child? Or perhaps it's the mother's story and we focus on her. Do we pull far out to see both characters in a wide background? If the scene is in public, do we see others going about their day or does the world blur out indicating the two are lost in their moment? Is the viewer observing them at average human height, as a human observer, or in a kind of god view over shot?

If it helps, image the characters as actors and how they may interpret the script differntly. Is the child hugging his mother's legs? Does the mother lower herself to be at the same level as the kid? Or does the kid pull up a chair so they can hug her properly?

You get the idea.

Most of the time my first thumbnail is brain vomit. But after committed loose ideas on paper, I can see what is working and what isn't. I try to explore ways I can amp up the image: a tigher crop, more fluid lines, foreshortening, etc. There's lots of exploration you can do, if you choose to.

But, if you feel you got it right the first time then maybe that really is the case.

50 is a crazy high number. 5 to 10 is what most people expect to see.

ArtMelC

@willicreate super helpful, thank you!

Nyrryl Cadiz

@ArtMelC i honestly think 10-50 thumbnails when on a tight deadline is unrealistic. i only do 1-2 and very seldom 3. when i have a tight deadline i choose the most simple and efficient thumbnail.

ArtMelC

@Nyrryl-Cadiz Thank you for weighing in. Totally get that, there is always ideals vs practical. Yes in client projects, practical always wins for me too

Melissa_Bailey

@ArtMelC I'm going to be the odd one out and admit: I don't really do thumbnails. Maybe 1-3. Sometimes I just rework the original thumbnail and go from there.

Like you, I usually do A LOT of thinking before I start sketching, and that helps figure things out. Unlike you, I do see vivid images in my imagination so I can set a scene in my head and play around with it, so I guess that helps when it comes to thumbnails. (Or the lack thereof.)

All artists work differently, and what works for one might not work for another. There is more than one illustration process. If you're struggling with thumbnails to the point where it's slowing you down, why not come up with a process that works for you? It can always be adjusted as you grow and your personal and professional life changes.

Maybe what might help you not be plagued by The Shoulds is to think about why 50 thumbnails is recommended: to plan out an illustration. The underlying lesson? Spend some time thinking and planning before jumping in and starting to sketch. That can be incorporated in any illustration process. And it might look different for different artists, and that's okay.

ajillustrates

@Melissa_Bailey Yes- a kindred spirit! I also will only do at most 3 thumbnails, and that’s only when working traditionally, just scribbling something on a scrap piece of paper as a finally proof of concept immediately before making the real sketch. I think it’s because I as well think about the piece for a long time before I start working on it. So before I put pencil to paper or stylus to screen, I’ve shot all the coverage and made the painting in my head dozens of times.

100% that all artists work a little differently. For me, if I have to do more than 3 thumbnails, it means either a) I haven’t thoroughly processed what the image should be or b) it’s not a good enough idea/image to spend my time or effort on.

ArtMelC

@Melissa_Bailey @ajillustrates thank you for your thoughtful responses! Indeed, I plan quite extensively in words before I start thumbnailing, and I sometimes tweak on the thumbnail itself if it is just making character a bit bigger, or a matter of cropping. I will still give multiple thumbnailing a shot for personal projects just to see if I unearth something cool I wouldn't otherwise try.

It is certainly reassuring to hear that it is not an absolute necessity to be able to picture-vomit tens of different compositions in one sitting in order to work as a pro illustrator

kirsten-mcg

@ArtMelC haha yes! I can relate to this! I had to make a “there are no bad ideas while thumbnailing” rule for myself.

kirsten-mcg

@ajillustrates this is so interesting! I didn't even realize this was a valid way of working. So essentially you're thumbnailing in your head, right? I'm going to have to try this.

ajillustrates

@kirsten-mcg Sort of. A lot of the time, I'll get the idea like a jolt of lightning, fully visualized. If it's a little more vague or I really have to work to think of a good solution to a prompt/script/creative brief, I'll think on it for a couple minutes to a couple days to come up with an approach I'm happy with. After either of those things happen, I'll turn the scene or character around in my head, considering different camera angles/lenses and details to include before sketching. I come from a film and animation background, so I think of it more like storyboarding, which is really just a bunch of thumbnails strung together anyway. Basically, it all comes out the same in the wash

ArtMelC

@ajillustrates Oo it's so cool that you can turn characters around in your head! I was talking to my friend who is a game artist and he talks about being able to visualize objects as a rotating 3D plane in his head to try out camera angles and I was like...nope can't relate to that at all! I have a wool dryer ball with eyes on my desk to visualize head turns lol.

I guess we all have different strengths and unique ways of working and it's all cool