Getting an Agent was bad for me.
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@NessIllustration Thanks Vanessa, I hope I can make something of it. It does seem to get harder to squeeze these things in as I get older, but a little bit every day should work.
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@MarcRobinson I could not afford it either, so I borrowed the money. One of the most game-changing things in this world is the concept of "Now." There is something powerful in believing in what can not be seen at present but knowing it will manifest through your risk and commitment.
You seem to be a humble man who allows the quality of his work to speak for itself. You must believe the battle is already won and step out in faith. I'm confident in your ability that if I had the money, I would bet on your success.
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@MarcRobinson I don't think you need to give up on getting a better agent unless you want to. If you don't feel comfortable doing standard children's book stuff you should eradicate that from your portfolio and only have stuff thats the kind of thing you want to do. You could also try pitching your own projects in order to get an agent. If your comfortable writing your own stories, then you could both more easily get an agent (they love people who can do both) and the agent would be coming to you for your concept not because they were attracted to some of your portfolio pieces that you are no longer interested in.
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@Mimi-Simon That's some really good advice, thank you. Like Will has said on the podcast before, I'm thinking the stuff I like to make might be out of the wheelhouse of a lot of agents and publishers, so going solo might be my only real avenue.
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@MarcRobinson Thank you so much for being willing to share this with us Marc.
To answer your question in bold, yes, all the time yes.
I totally relate to everything you said. There was a "bigger" gig that came along for me that didn't end up working out and I was actually so happy it didn't because of the confinement I felt almost immediately.
I struggle with this literally all of the time: wanting to get paid for my illustration work but feeling boxed in when an opportunity arises.
Really I don't know if this problem ever goes away, even when you feel like you've "made it" as an illustrator... also when is that? Is it when you've made $20 from your art or $20,000? Clearly it's this subjective thing that lives in our minds about what it is to be a "real illustrator" like you said.
This is going to seem quite random, but the works of Martin Salisbury (books about illustration) actually helped me to get past these notions a little bit, particularly his latest, Illustrator's Sketchbooks.
Anyway, thanks again for sharing, I deeply resonated with this entire post of yours.
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@MarcRobinson said in Getting an Agent was bad for me.:
do you ever think you've been trying to “fit in” to a genre of illustration that maybe you are not meant to be in?
There was a moment in history where all businesses wanted to break into social media, hiring any young person to create rando content for the likes. I did that for a while. Made a few thoughtful pieces but mostly thoughtless content. The job could have grown into a career, but I couldn’t continue. I disappointed a few people, including my mentor at the time, but like you I wanted to be true to myself.
Sorry to hear the agency wasn’t of help to you. In 2023 MOCCA Fest, I sat in this lecture on indie/alternative graphic novel publishing:
Professional Development: Publishing BooksToday The link is timestamped to the part the 4 editors shared their opinion of agents. It wasn’t positive. Can’t say if their sentiment is shared by the children’s book publishing houses.I like your anthropomorphic crocodile fantasy piece. Not sure if that is the kind of “weird stuff” you want to do, but I see a market for it in indie video games, board games, and is align with European graphic novels. Keep exploring different industries, networking, and please continue to share your work.
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@Kristen-Lango Thanks Kristen I'm glad you found parts of it relatable. It's definitely a weird thing trying to fit in. I guess I've just been a bit afraid to be myself and it not having the appeal.
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@willicreate Thank you for the link, I'm gonna check it out. It's funny you should mention social media because last year I really pushed my Instagram everyday, and one post went kind of viral. I jumped up from 800 followers to about 16K in a few weeks, but it was SO shallow. No real engagement and I'm sure half the people were bots!
I do like my alligator illustration and it is more in the vein of what I mean by weird. But I guess I really just mean stuff that doesn't easily fit into the mainstream. The comics I've done in the past have always had dark humour and adult themes.
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I'm sorry you're going through this, Marc. I recently submitted my illustration portfolio to [redacted] Agency and actually received the opposite feedback. They told me that my style was too vague and to reach out again once I revised. I had heard some poor reviews from others so I decided not to pursue further.
Trust your instincts & lean into the work that genuinely excites you. There are so many ways to be a "real illustrator." The most important thing is finding the path that makes you feel fulfilled.
Wishing you all the best in rediscovering your artistic journey!https://www.menalkhan.com/
Connect with me → https://linktr.ee/menalkhan -
@MarcRobinson I think a lot of artists have a limited view of what is actually possible these days. There is no use boxing yourself in to a niche that you have no heart for. You won't produce quality work. If your comics did great, lean into that for a year and see what happens. And you are already a real illustrator, simply by the fact that you create illustrations. You're also a comics artist.
While commercial publishing I know has its merits as the guys have mentioned, the world of self publishing is so full of opportunities. I don't say that from experience, but as a hopeful illustrator working on his first ever book that I am super excited about and believe there is an audience for. And I have many other ideas I believe will do well.
It is going to take a lot of work, but if your heart is in it, you won't even notice.
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Hey Marc, I have been having this question about myself as well. Do I really want to be an illustrator for silly children's books? Or do I want to draw art for stories that actual resonate with me?
Like YA Novels, superheroes, comics, etc.
I think you're experiencing an issue that I never got the chance to address years ago when I first came here to the forums at SVS (since I finally got a day job).
We're trying to break into a market that is probably already oversaturated and dominated by well-known and well-established artists, that has also been shrinking down with the economy, not to mention clients being taken away from AI.
I know someone who has been contracted with an agent for 1.5 years and they still haven't gotten clients. Perhaps children's books aren't hot right now, or maybe the agent isn't very competent.
Either way, I would recommend drawing for yourself and try to create or invest in projects that resonate with you, before trying to market yourself.
Finis Coronat Opus
Instagram: www.instagram.com/madgcartoons/
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Thanks for sharing. You know what's funny? I had noticed that you and a lot of other really talented people were agented but not getting work and it made me realise that if you folks aren't getting bites then there's no hope for me!
Like you, I realised that I wanted to do darker, more edgy work, that targets an older audience; the stories and ideas I've been having are much better suited to screenplays than a 32 page picture book.
Another few factors that contributed:
- My local SCBWI chapter all complained about being on minimum wage as picture book illustrators after being in the industry for many years, they also had to get second jobs to make up the difference
- I attended the SCBWI conference and instead of inspiring me it weirdly put me off the industry
I really think your work would be suited to indie video games, your art style puts me in mind of Monster Boy, I really loved that visual style when I played it. Ever thought about making games? It's an industry that's much easier to reach your target demographic and run focus groups and testing (people will test you game for free!). Picture books, in contrast, don't allow you to reach (or test) the actual demographic to prove that a story or style is good (except for friends and family's kids for self-publishing), instead various gatekeepers dictate what makes it through, and what is deemed 'appropriate' or 'on trend.'
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All I can say is that everything you've ever posted on SVS has been awesome and inspiring for me. I find it so hard to believe that artists of your caliber aren't getting work.
I've taken on few projects that I really wasn't "in to" emotionally and in the end didn't like the end product, it's only those project/pieces that interested me that I was proud of. I know we all have dreams of actually making a living on our art but I'm afraid it's like wanting to be a successful actor, few and far between. But...we can find fulfillment in creating what brings us joy! -
@menalkhan thank you. It's crazy to me because your work is absolutely beautiful and I'm glad you decided to try elsewhere.
I appreciate the support so much thank you. -
@tombarrettillo cheers mate and yeah I think it's time for me to lean into the stuff I really enjoy. I've been trying too hard for too long to fit in. I've not completely written off children's book work, but I think it will have to be my own stories. A change of agent too.
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@Michael-Angelo-Go definitely lean into the stuff that inspires you mate. It's hard trying to force it, and it'll probably show in the work. I still think there are really good opportunities in the kidlit industry if you've got the right idea and style to get picked up, but you're right that it's not the only way to go anymore.
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@Larue that's really nice of you to say Larue, thank you. I suspect that the agent isn't sure where to put me, and that's down to the images I've sent them I think. And THAT is due to my heart not being in it. I'm sure they have artists on their roster who can just make stuff like a production line, but that's not me. I don't have much time to draw, with 3 kids, so I need to make my own stuff. For me.
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@MarcRobinson I had a similar experience with a large and well-established agency (which has been mentioned a few times on the SVS podcast). Over a year of representation, I got like one children's magazine project from them, and I also feel like I have gotten lost in their huge roster of highly talented artists. This seems like a common pattern for big agencies.
I decided to part ways with my agency last month and am now navigating my own path. I've come to realize that I've spent a lot of time creating work to fit the market, rather than making art that truly resonates with me. Ironically, this approach didn't yield the results I hoped for. So, I've been asking myself, why continue trying to fit in when I can focus on creating for my own joy? A part of me remains passionate about illustrating for children's books, while another part of me yearns to focus on embracing illustration as just a fulfilling hobby, free from the pressure to generate income.
I think your work is absolutely incredible and it's such a bummer that you haven't gotten any project yet through your agency. I believe there's a market for diverse art styles; it's just a matter of finding the perfect match. I'm not in a position to offer advice because I'm also struggling and have yet to find an answer, but I'm here rooting for you. Keep creating, pushing forward, and sharing your progress!
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/lynniesketches/
Portfolio: https://lynniesketches.com -
@Jason-Crowley it's kind of you to say mate but I wouldn't say there is no hope for you! Our styles are different and there will be opportunities for you, it's just a case of when. It's funny you should mention concept art for games because that's kind of where I've come from. Well, sort of. I did game art at university, then had a spate of freelance concept gigs. But I think I've realised I don't like making other people's stuff! Ha. It's going to have to be my own stories. Have you ever considered doing a short story/novel that is illustrated? Might fit your story idea better than a picture book?
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@MarcRobinson Like a chapter book? I hadn't considered that, but drawing in black and white appeals because I struggle with colour. Apparently, according to SCBWI, chapter books aren't doing well, I guess because kids are more into their phones than reading. I've been thinking of learning to write screenplays and submit the ideas for film/tv, which skips over the illustration part completely...
That's funny about you starting out in game art, I hear you about just wanting to do your own thing. I have a lot of game ideas but I don't have time to learn C# to build them.
Good luck with your next agent and comic!
