Converting layered Procreate files to CMYK

[Anna Lindsay]

Hi all!
I've got a bit of technical question for you...
These days I do all my client work in Procreate and if needed I'll finish up the piece in Photoshop if it needs converting to a special colour mode or if the file is getting too big for Procreate to handle. This has never been an issue before but recently I've had a client ask to be sent layered CMYK files.

As you may know Procreate's CMYK mode sucks and it doesn't really allow you to export anything without fudging up the colours (I know from bitter experience haha). So what I usually do is work in RGB then if the client wants a CMYK file I will export the file to Photoshop where I can then flattened the image and convert to a CMYK profile. Using this method the colours are pretty spot on 90% of the time, with a few adjustments needed the other 10% of the time. However, if I try to convert to CMYK before flattening the image it makes the colours look pretty weird the majority of the time. In my limited understanding this is partly because there are a lot of layer modes in both Procreate and Photoshop that simply don't work in the CMYK colour space, for example overlay layers.

The client insisted on fully layered documents in CMYK and I warned them the colours would look a bit dodgy but they told me their designer would colour correct them. A week or so after sending the layered CMYK files they come back to me complaining that the files look weird and the designer can't fix them

I tried to explain to them why this had happened and proposed some solutions. In the end what I did was I sent them print ready flattened CMYK files that had been converted using the more reliable method that preserves the colours. I also sent fully layered RGB files if they still wanted to edit anything before printing they could do so then flatten and convert the files themselves.

They seem to be happy with this solution but this whole process has got me thinking of how I can avoid this issue in the future.

Is it normal for clients to want layered CMYK files? Is it even strictly necessary for them to have?
If so is there a better way of converting from RGB to CMYK while preserving layers?

Thank you for reading this far! I'm really curious to hear everyone's thoughts on this.

[Melissa_Bailey]

@Annabishop yeah ... I don't know a way around converting layered files like that ... but I'm not super tech savvy either!

Is it normal for clients to want layered CMYK files? I've heard of this happening more and more, clients wanting layered PSD files of the artwork. This is not something I would do, unless I trusted that the client wouldn't make major changes to my artwork (but then, if they didn't anticipate needing to make changes, why would they ask for a layered PSD file?) AND the client would have to pay for the source files on top of the base illustration price. I take this stance because my name is attached to the artwork and my style is what my business is built on. If a client makes major changes, my name is still attached to that work and that could be an inaccurate depiction of who I am as an artist to future clients.

Of course, other artists make different decisions, based on their business and what works for them. In my work as a book designer, quite a few times the illustrator did not leave enough room for the text and when I requested that they adjust their artwork (which is standard practice), a few have sent layered PSD files for me to make those changes. They may have been too busy to make the changes, it was just easier, or they didn't mind major changes to their work. Of course, the client and I ran any changes we made to the artwork by the illustrator for their approval, but not all clients will do that.

So I guess this is a longwinded way of saying: yes, it's becoming more common for clients to want layered source files. But personally, I don't think it's necessary or advisable to give source files to a client.

[Anna Lindsay]

@Melissa_Bailey Thank you for your reply Melissa!
You make a really good point there about the layered files. I might try to challenge clients a little bit more on this in the future. Like you say, you don't know what changes they might make to the artwork that then goes out into the world with your name attached to it.
I think I remember @Lee-White mentioning this on a podcast episode. He advised asking which particular element they planned on moving and then giving them a file with only that element separated from the rest so you know they aren't going to mess with the entire image. In hindsight I should have done this with this particular client.

But what I don't understand is in that scenario what they would gain from that file being CMYK over RGB. Isn't it simple for them to convert on their side after they've made edits? If anyone knows this please enlighten me!

[Nyrryl Cadiz]

@Annabishop Yup, actually almost all of the clients my ex agent got me wanted PSD files in CMYK. This is why I shifted to using Photoshop exclusively instead of Procreate. If shifting to Photoshop is not an option for you, here's a solution I used to do:

1. you could use a cmyk color pallete instead. There are many ready made palletes online that you could use
2. Don't use blend modes or at least use them sparingly. A multiplied layer in RGB can look quite different in CMYK. so if you have to use them, use them very sparingly.

[ArtMelC]

@Nyrryl-Cadiz Is there a legit reason though for wanting it Layered and in CMYK? I can't wrap my head around why, other than possibly the client not fully knowing what they are doing and are just asking for everything "just in case".

[Nyrryl Cadiz]

@ArtMelC well, why not? My previous clients were reputable publishing companies who have a graphic designer assigned to the book I'm working on. They know what they are doing. I dare say they are better at design than me. Usually they want a PSD file so that they can move things around to make space for the text. Overall, I guess I just trust them. But I guess it depends on the type of client an illustrator gets the chance to work with. I think I've just been lucky so far.

[ArtMelC]

@Nyrryl-Cadiz I don't know anything about publishing but my previous job in consulting has led to a lot of encounters with clients asking for things "just because/ just in case / it's always been done this way" hence my skepticism. Sad to say that working in a big reputable company doesn't equal knowing every aspect of what they are doing. Hehe.

But of course as professional service provider we try to accommodate their requests if not too unreasonable.

[Nyrryl Cadiz]

@ArtMelC For me at least, sending in a PSD files takes about the same time and effort as sending in a JPEG so I don't really mind either way.

[Melissa_Bailey]

@Annabishop you're welcome!

CMYK is the color profile for print, and it can be very different from RGB. It might be a client's way of making sure that the file you're sending them is as close to print-ready as possible. It also gives you the opportunity to deliver the exact colors you intended, as there can be quite a color shift when converting from RGB to CMYK.

Adding to what @Nyrryl-Cadiz and @ArtMelC have said: this all probably depends on an artist's illustration process as well. Because I'm used to working traditionally, when I work digitally, I don't use a lot of layers. If l work on elements in separate layers, they all get flattened into one layer before I move on to the next step in my process. So it probably wouldn't do clients much good if I sent source files. I'm sure clients are used to hearing, "Sorry, I don't work in many layers," from artists with a similar process. Most bigger clients, I'm sure, are used to working with artists who don't supply PSD files, either because of their process or because they work traditionally.

[Anna Lindsay]

@Nyrryl-Cadiz
Hi Nyrryl, thank you for your reply!
I can see there are quite a few benefits to working in Photoshop vs Procreate. For me shifting entirely to Photoshop would mean investing in a new drawing tablet unfortunately. I might consider biting the bullet at some point and investing in a cintiq or something similar but I can't really justify the cost at the moment.
Even if I was working exclusively in photoshop working entirely in CMYK feels very limiting to me. Blend modes are quite a big part of my process working digitally and not using them feels like shooting myself in the foot. Also these days even if you are creating work primarily for print you also want things to look good on screen too for use in online portfolios, social media etc.

I feel like there must be a middle ground. Your suggestion of using CMYK palette is a good shout. It's also possible to see a preview of how your file would look in CMYK in photoshop without converting it. This makes sure you aren't straying too far out of the CMYK colour gamut while still taking full advantage of the vivid colour palette RGB allows you. I sometimes do this a few times during my work in progress on my procreate files. I suppose maybe clients don't trust illustrators to do this so they'd rather just get the files in CMYK and know the colours are what the artist intended. (Although as I mentioned above I have no issue with sending CMYK files to clients it's the need for both CMYK and layers that's giving me a headache haha)

I've tried googling this a few times and I can see there's a bit of a hot debate on the topic of working in CMYK vs RGB so I'm not sure there is one correct answer, I suppose lot of it comes down to what your process is like.

[Anna Lindsay]

@ArtMelC So yesterday I actually chatted on the phone to the agent who was helping me manage this project and we talked over this issue. They said "The problem is sometimes the editors don't really know what they need". Considering this client was fine in the end with having flattened CMYK files and Layered RGB files I think there might be some truth in what your saying.

I have definitely learnt a lot from this experience, next time I can flag this up as a issue right away if a client asks for layered CMYK files. Then we can decide together on a work around early on, or figure out if they actually need their files like that after all.

[ArtMelC]

@Annabishop awesome that you've got that cleared up!