Has anyone had any experience with the 'hybrid publishing' contract or Olympia Publishers?

[lizardillo]

Hi all,

I've been a bit quiet lately sorry but I have a question that I looking for some advice on please about these: https://olympiapublishers.com/

I have had a first time author approach me asking if I would be interested in illustrating her picture book. It's a long rhyming story about a character's adventure and looks quite fun to do.

She has said she has been approaching publishers (I have told her that publishers use their own illustrators).

She has had a reply back from a publisher called Olympia Publishers saying that the manuscript has passed it's initial review but before they can carry on with the next stage of the evaluation they need to know the number of illustrations to help determine whether the book will be a suitable length. They also need to know if the author will require to use one of their illustrators, or if the author will be sourcing the illustrations themselves.

The author has told them that she would like to use myself if I agree but I'm being asked to say how many illustrations it will be.

I've got the manuscript and I can make it either 32 or 24 pages + covers but to work out the number of illustrations surely I would need to make a dummy and look at what would be full page or spot etc. - which seems a bit strange to do before agreeing to any contracts. It's something that I would need to charge for.

Another thing... didn't think publishers let you use your own illustrators unless you are an author/illustrator? Looking at the publishers website it's hard to work out if they pay for the book or you have to pay them?

Theres something called 'Hybrid Publishing' on their site - which they say is NOT a vanity publisher:
https://olympiapublishers.com/blog/hybrid-publishers-are-not-vanity-publishers/

I'm getting a bit of a 'red flag' vibe at the moment as I'm not quite understanding the concept of how they work. I would rather the publisher pays my fees rather than the author and I would need to make sure there is a contract regrading any royalties payed to me are through the publisher as the author would not be set up to deal with that kind of thing.

More about it here:
https://www.ibpa-online.org/page/hybrid-publisher-criteria-download

If anyone has any experience of this kind of thing that would be great thanks.

It does mean I will need to try and work out a fee for a 32 page picture book for a possible self-publishing author too.

Liz

[Melissa_Bailey]

@lizardillo short answer: hybrid publishers are often exploitative. While there are some legit hybrid publishers, most are vanity publishers. Hybrid publishing is considered independent publishing. They are not a traditional publisher and don't function like one, as they charge the author an up-front fee to publish the book. As far as you're concerned, this would be a self-publishing job.

Hybrid publishing is expensive and, most of the time, not worth the cost. Often, the author will have to cover the illustration costs, whether from the hybrid's stable of illustrators or one they find and hire themselves.

ALLi's Watchdog Desk is a very helpful resource. They rate various self-publishing services from Excellent all the way down to Watchdog Advisory. You can find this free resource here.

I looked up Olympia Publishers and they have a Watchdog Advisory rating, which means: "Services that fail to align with ALLi's Code of Standards, are the subject of consistent complaints and, in some cases, have been subject to legal action."

Your red flag vibes are spot on. Personally, I would stay away from them and would not recommend them to anyone I work with. ALLi's self-publishing services ratings might be something to share with the author.

[lizardillo]

@Melissa_Bailey Thank you Melissa. I thought so, thanks for confirming - I'm not clued up on the author side of publishing. All of this has happened between the author and Olympia before getting to me.

I could see the email conversation trail and questions like "Before we are able to proceed with the next evaluation, we need to know the number of illustrations you envision having as this will help determine whether your book will be a suitable length" just seemed so weird - that would be something decided once the fee/contract was agreed and the book pagination was planned surely. the author has said she will ask me to let her know how many would be needed - but I've not seen any contract or discussed any fees yet, let alone planned DPS, FP or spots also, why would you ask the author?

The author is obviously very excited to get this reply from the author. I just need to go and write a very diplomatic reply to be kind and not crush her dreams. I don't want anyone to be taken advantage of especially when it's something that holds a lot of passion.

Thanks again for your help

[Melissa_Bailey]

@lizardillo you're welcome. Hope it turns out well for both of you!

Yeah, illustration count is a weird thing for the publisher to ask -- another way that hybrid is different from traditional publishing.

In self/independent publishing, it's very common for the author to determine how many illustrations they'll need and what kind, and then look to hire an illustrator. That's the advice that a lot of authors get from self-publishing coaches/experts, especially if they're looking for guidance on Facebook or YouTube.

[lizardillo]

@Melissa_Bailey That makes sense thanks - yes thinking about it, a self-publisher would probably need some sort of guess to what they needed to have an idea when contacting an illustrator (and then the illustrator would sort it out properly). But I would say it's a big no-no from a real publisher.

[carlianne]

@Melissa_Bailey I've never seen that website! Thanks so much for sharing!

I worked with a hybrid publisher for my, "How to Draw Adorable" book. They are on the website that Melissa shared and rated as "excellent" I have had a very good relationship with them thus far but hybrid or self publishing is NOT for everyone and as Melissa mentioned there are a lot of "hybrid" publishers that are really just vanity presses that charge you large sums of money, take most of your profit and don't do anything but submit to Ingram for you.

With my publisher I paid the upfront costs and even a fee to them for their services. But I own the copyright to all of my books, and I take a VERY high percentage in royalties. They brought my book to book buyers, got my book in bookstores including the Museum of Modern Art gift shop where it sells great, they handle all printing, storage of my inventory, shipping and customer care and even provide me with a publicist. They helped me get placed in book awards (which is how I won an award). They've arranged influencer outreach and giveaways on my behalf etc.

They told me how many pages I should do, and the price point to sell at, and made recommendations for paper quality, book dimensions etc. although I was allowed final okay. They would have done the design but I chose my own designer. They also had an editor for me.

Any books I sell and ship on my own (like my kickstarter or when someone shops my website) I keep %100 of the profit.

I was able to use my kickstarter to pay the upfront costs but it is still a large investment that I had to put down to order books and get it designed and I won't know until April what profit I've actually made . However I was confident I could use my own social media presence to sell books and that I would be working my booty off to sell the books and I wanted most of the profit but didn't want to deal with the other responsibilities of self publishing.

For me for THIS book it was a great choice. I do not think I would choose that for a children's book which is a much trickier market to make a profit in anyway.

But right now my book is doing great and I'm happy to get most of the reward. It was worth the vet high risk and investment for me. Anyway just wanted to share Incase someone else wanted to know about hybrid publishers as I've had first have experience

[lizardillo]

@carlianne thank you. So glad it’s working out for you. Everything I have read has been pretty bad against hybrid publishing so far (I had not heard of it until this afternoon!). I have advised to avoid the one mentioned because of the feedback but it’s good to know that there are good guys out there! The difference is I’m not the author/illustrator so I’m not sure if the author would have to pay illustration costs on top of the fee they would charge for publication (whether it’s me or their own illustrator). I’ve got so many questions to ask them, such as - If I end up being the illustrator on a hybrid project do I get the royalties from the publisher or the author?

Most options so far is that you shouldn’t be getting charged by publishers.

I will suggest to let them do their own research into the matter and give them everything I have to help let them decide.

Thanks again for your info. Congratulations on the book.

[carlianne]

@lizardillo thanks! I would still suggest using SUPER caution if using a hybrid. I also had only heard bad things. The only reason I went for it was because I had an friend/agent who knew/trusted them. I find it tricky still to recommend it even though I'm having a good experience because there are so many bad ones out there.

From my experience the set up would be that the author is the one paying for your services up front. I paid my own designer and editors out of pocket. But the publisher would be the one to send the royalty checks to anyone who should get them. That's atleast how it's working with mine.

[Melissa_Bailey]

@carlianne you’re so welcome! And I’m super glad that you found a reputable hybrid and that you’ve had a great experience with them!

[kirsten-mcg]

@carlianne do you mind sharing the name of the publisher you used?

[carlianne]

@kirsten-mcg I used Girl Friday Productions

[lizardillo]

Thank you everyone. I have passed on the information to the author. She was obviously quite excited and rushed through accepting. It was less than 24 hours from her getting a reply from the publisher, saying that she would ask me to be the illustrator and asking me if I would accept doing the book and could she send them images of my work for them to approve (I hadn’t even seen any of the emails by the time this has gone through.

I have explained to her what Olympia are and how they are run. Advised to to not rush anything and look into how hybrid publishing works, look into other publishers. I’ve suggested the scwbi, joining children’s books forums and groups and buy the children’s writers and illustrators handbook.

She is thankful and agrees she should slow down and look into things.

I have suggested that although her story looks quite fun to illustrate (it’s short rhyming verses about an adventure), I don’t think that my style is really suited for preschool (2-4 years she was aiming for). I have explained that matching the style to the book is so important in a picture book.

Thank you again, you have helped stop someone possible making a mistake. We all know how exciting it can be when what you have been working towards for years suddenly seems to be coming true - judgment can get clouded by emotions. She is armed with a lot more information now to be able to carry on in the future.

She seems like a lovely person so would not want her (or anyone) to be taken advantage of.

[Melissa_Bailey]

@lizardillo that's so awesome! I'm so glad that you passed the information on to her and that she's now better equipped to proceed publishing her book in a more mindful way. Hopefully this will save her from a lot of publishing pitfalls.

And good on you to resist the lure of a paying job and saying that you don't feel that your style is the best fit. That takes a lot of guts and shows how much you care!