Music wip



  • Sorry @kylebeaudette

    Tangents typically mean when the contours or edges of two elements meet up in close proximity to eachother and it creates awkwardness or unintended focus in that area. So that lamp hanging in the background by his head, just gives a weird emphasis to that area. It's sitting right in the center of his head and is a bit distracting. If you had raised it, so we could see more of the lamp shade, it could also potentially create another "tangent" where is looks like the lamp shade is his hat. So I would just move that pendant light behind the center character to the left and possible make it so we could see the lamp shade. It's hard to see what will work without trying it.

    When I say compress the values, (I'm not sure I'm using that term correctly btw) I'm saying not to use as wide of a range of values. Values can go from white to black. So instead of using the full range from lightest to darkest, you would just bracket out a portion of them to use. It could be from very light to mid tones. Or just mid tones. Or dark midtones to black. Or whatever. It's about contrast. More of a value range will be more contrasted, less of a value range will be less contrasted.

    So for this particular piece, it looks like you are using a very similar value structure throughout the whole thing. You've thought about how color, texture, and size will let the different elements stand out, but the values are all very similar. It could be that it's certain style you're going for, so feel free to ignore this advice, but I think you could play with value a bit more to lead our eye through the piece. Right now everything seems to have equal visual weight and so my eye keeps jumping around between everything without visual rest. That's not necessarily a bad thing I guess, but if you did want some difference, one solution might to keep a wide range of values on the two characters in the foreground and the bar, and less value contrast in the background. You could go lighter, darker, or keep it midrange.

    Hope that all made sense! 😛



  • I did these value analysis studies a while back, but it kind of illustrates what I was trying to say. These are all studied from pieces by Will Terry. You can see how some elements use a very wide range of values, and some a lower range of values.

    0_1534706993241_value2.jpg

    0_1534707086932_value1.jpg



  • @tessaw ahhhh yes, ok! I totally agree. I was trying to figure out how to add more depth to this. Thanks!!!



  • to piggy back on @TessaW's comment. You can also use tonal values. Add grey/blue to your colors to make them less intense if you want them to recede. To make them appear more important warm them up.



  • Sooo I don't know how well I listened, but I worked on it more tonight. It's still kind of all over the place.
    0_1534734678483_japigcantina.jpg

    I tried to push the background back further with layers, some are very scratchy and sloppy. I edited out a character that just wasn't working, and added some light up front. I feel kind of like I'm just making a mess now🤗



  • @kylebeaudette

    It always feels like a mess until it's finished. I often feel like I'm trying to make a gourmet meal out of hot garbage when I'm drawing. Keep polishing and it'll turn out fine.

    It may be time to put it away for a day or two then come back to it if it's getting hard to work on.



  • Ugh, I did one more pass getting rid of confusing colours.
    0_1534737565173_IMG_20180819_235719_683.jpg



  • I personally thinks it's shaping up nicely. I do think your previous version was working nicely as well, because it felt harmonized and the color was circulated well throughout.

    I think you've done a nice job separating your foreground from your background. I do think that at this point, you could bring back some of the awesome lighting elements back into the scene. Don't be afraid to keep some nice low glows to your water tank, light bulbs, and windows. That might confuse you since I told you to compress your values, but you've tamed the objects and other characters so well that I think you can get away with it and it will add a really cool bar atmosphere.

    You're doing a great job with this piece, so I hope you don't feel to overwhelmed.



  • I like how you've worked through this image, seems like you've learned a lot in a short time. While I agree with some of the other crits that have helped this piece I think what got lost was the Music element. The band is almost non existent at this point because the values are so dark. Maybe you could add a Jukebox in the foreground since the focus is on the 2 guys sitting at the bar if you want to keep the music idea. Or just focus on making a cool illustration of guys at a bar, its a fun scene, but I don't get Music from it.



  • @shiggins180 yeah, I agree. I had originally wanted the creature flying across the room into a jukebox that was all lit up, casting light onto his behind. This last touch up last night was no good. I'll revert back to the save right before, and beef up that band from a two piece to another couple of musicians, and light them like their show required a cover price.

    On a seperate note, I had done a google image search for 'bar' to get some good layout ideas for a background. I found a great one, and traced it in a matter of like, 5 minutes. I went back and changed it a bit, but it's essentially a trace.
    Initially, I was thinking 'oh I can't keep an element I traced in here..' but now I dont care at all, and can see myself pasting various background scenes together and tracing them in the future. I usually just don't do a background. I hope I eventually learn the language of architecture through absolutely cheating my backgrounds for a while😅



  • 0_1534822663768_musicjjj.jpg
    Well, some more. Reverted some stuff, changed some others. There's so many layers now it's kind of a nightmare to work on...



  • 0_1534825633603_musicelephant.jpg
    Maybe this instead



  • Ive really been enjoying watching this build up - it also reminds me of a more fine art approach to making an image, and has a really wonderful grundgy feel to it.
    With all the activity, it also reads well, and I am having a lot of fun going through the image and discovering all of your creatures.
    My only thought is your flying guy - his toes are creating the most perfect tangent with the pole behind him.



  • @kylebeaudette wow this is looking great! I feel your pain, though. Layers! But don't give up. The picture is looking really good.



  • That elephant illustration is so great!

    As for your side note about backgrounds: I think it's ok to trace at first to get your images done. Especially in the beginning when you're trying to get a hang of your medium and other elements. I will say though that once you get the hang of perspective and constructing things out of simple forms, you'll be able to do whatever background you want without tracing. Reference will then become more of an inspiration source to gather ideas, as well as fill in details on your base you've established. Instead of finding bar reference and tracing over it, you could find the bar reference, draw it from any angle or perspective you want, and use the reference to fill in the details. You'll get there eventually with some time and study.



  • 0_1534878525824_kyle.jpg

    And if you wanted to make your piece more about music, perhaps if you gave less emphasis to the foreground area and more emphasis to the general bar area, it would help sell the idea better.

    Here's a super rough paintover to show how you could demphasize the foreground (again with less value contrast). You'd probably need to bring up the contrast of the background more though!

    Just a thought.



  • @TessaW
    Gaah, soo much better!! I love how the squidman is sad too 🙂
    Alas, it is far too late. There are 35 layers on this sucker, and many of them accidentally contain elements that should be on a lower layer and so forth. I've spent too much time on it as is, as some point you have to just move on. I like cropping the bar out, though! I'll definitely do that when I hand it in.
    You've been super helpful 😃



  • @kylebeaudette Yeah, I agree, sometimes you just have to call it good! I hope I helped somewhat and didn't screw you up too much. All said and done, you still make compelling images. Keep up the good work.



  • Just want to throw in a word of encouragement for utilizing this critique with such a posture of learning and determination. Your image is excellent, and I think it has become even better thanks to the work you've put in.


  • SVS OG

    @kylebeaudette It was great to see the image evolve. You're doing great!


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