getting there Discipline vs motivation...



  • How do keep getting yourself to work? What brings you farther, motivation?, and where are you getting it from? or do we have to force ourselves to discipline, and how do you do that?



  • Focus on what your goal is, and tell yourself the less you do the longer it will take you to get there.



  • @Steve-Young so for you the most important thing is motivation, or discipline by motivation?



  • do you really think people with a lot of discipline are motivated to do their schedules? of course not, it just takes motivation to begin actions to make the habit, then it's just consistent effort, without passion or you're gonna get butt hurt

    take these facts

    • mayor barrier is emotional

    • being stable is better than being too passionate: the fall will be worse

    • you can't expect changes without challenges

    • it never gets easier, you just become better

    • the only thing that matters in the long term is that you don't quit



  • @Alberto-M so for you its discipline aswell. I think its about discipline too. But thats the hard part isn't it? Disciplining yourself to get up early, or work late to achieve goals.



  • motivation is like the fuel for discipline, it's not a dichotomy at all



  • @Alberto-M said:
    Sorry, was just trying to start a friendly discussion.



  • ?? am I not friendly? :(



  • Discipline by motivation is whats needed, also having suport and guidance with other artist.also helps immensely. Also having a project helps guide yourself to an end product.





  • @Steve-Young It does help a lot to get in contact with other artists, thats really motivating and fun!



  • This is a great topic!

    One of the things that motivates me to become more disciplined is accountability. It has helped me a lot to use my blog audience (real or imagined, haha) as people who hold me accountable.

    I recently read a story about a man who hiked the Pacific Crest Trail. He took a picture at each mile marker, to hold himself accountable to finish. And, as he pointed out, it would be obvious if he skipped any. :-)

    When I heard Jake Parker say you have to draw enough to fill out a sketchbook a month, I knew I was doing the art thing wrong. He motivated me, but I lacked the discipline to follow through on my own. So I put myself through a drawing "boot camp" where I had to draw for an hour every day for four weeks and post the results on my blog. As a result, I became more disciplined, even on days my motivation waned (Fridays especially, I was more motivated to go to bed than draw for an hour, haha)

    I think of motivation as more specific, and goal-oriented, while discipline is broad and applies to action rather than ends.

    Motivation = to improve as an artist. (goal)
    Discipline = work every day work every day work every day (action)

    A word I like a lot is determined. :-)



  • @Carey-Bowden Thank you! you are so right. If you have an achievable goal its easier to find discipline. Thanks so much for that!



  • Motivation is without any doubt my driving factor. For me, this is key to discipline, pushing myself, enjoying the moment, learning and making the most of my time. My biggest motivation is probably to help other people. This could be through teaching or simply helping people feel inspired. More specifically, I love the idea of igniting the spark in people's imagination, to let the inner child surface!

    My other motivation revolves around becoming good at something. Check out Jake Parker's video on creating a personal manifesto, this really nails it.



  • @Dado-Almeida
    I'd be up for some sort of "Group" or "System". I'm here to get better. Would love to do this for a living :)



  • I like the group idea, Its something I would love to do. As for discipline and motivation give yourself a goal, project or level of attainment. This normally helps with both.



  • I like the idea of a group aswell. I want to learn from your critiques, tips and tricks. It motivates to notice other peoples views.



  • @Rowan-Ferguson Thanks!



  • hey guys, Great topic! I'm including a lot of information on this in my business course which I'm developing now. There are a few concepts that hold true as a basis for getting better (as well as a few things to avoid).

    1. Don't just practice random stuff. Be sepcific
    I hear a phrase in art training all the time that we should just be sketching constantly which is only somewhat true. Just moving your pencil doens't get you much better once you are at the intermediate stage. It equates to doodling which is fine if you are just bored, but to get better you need to work on specific weaknesses. My saying is always: Train your weakness. So if you are learning the figure, don't just go draw when the model takes the pose, you need to work on specifics. Example: Today I am focusing on light/dark relationsships or "Controlling my edges" or "Boxing out form". It is so much easier when you have this guide.

    2. Plan out your training. Don't wait for inspiration
    My whole weeks and months are blocked out in advance and I know exactly where I'm heading and what I'm working on. Without this type of planning you might be left with the feeling of "what to do want to draw today" which leads to both bordom with drawing and lackluster drawings in general. Plan out a month of cool stuff you want to work on and break it down to how much time you can spend on that daily.

    3. Be a copycat
    The fastest and best way to get good is to copy people who are better than you. Doing "Master copies" should be a lifelong standard practice in my opinion. It allows you to step outside your weaknesses and see how someone else does something. I've seen students improve so quickly by taking a term and doing one master copy per week. We pick different artists so you don't start to look too much like the person you are copying. I still do mastercopies as much as possible and it's such an enjoyable practice. BTW, this used to be standard in art training, but over the last 30 years the focus has been on making everyone find their "individuality" at the expense of craftsmanship. What ends up happening is the "individuality" only happens because someone can't actually draw or paint well.

    Can you imagine what it would be like if you were trying to learn piano and they didn't teach you how to actually play scales and understand music? That's exaclty what happens in art training. That's why most artists improve so slowly compared to other areas where training is broken down into logical steps and systems. Compare art training with music, martial arts, or anywhere else where people are learning a skill set and you can see why it sucks so bad and everyone is sort of flying blind. Take martial arts for example. I know that as a white belt I will learn specific steps that a white belt is supposed to learn. Then when I have mastered that, I move on to the next belt and the skills that come with that. It's a fantastic model that lets you see exactly what you are supposed to be doing and what you need to do to get to the next stage.

    I actually taught a concept design course where I made the grades into belts. I woudn't let anyone go on to assignment #2 untill assignment #1 was at 90% or better. Some people worked on the same assignment for weeks on end until it was right. Others nailed it quickly and proceeded to the next "belt". It was awesome because it wasn't arbitrary. The student had to nail what the assignment was teaching. No BS could get them around it. I saw more improvement in that system of grading than any other.

    Anyway, much more on this topic to come....



  • I find having my 9-5 boring job makes great motivation to work on my own pieces.